The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has named two coordinators to help manage and sustain the Adirondack and Catskill Forest Preserves. Josh Clague will serve as Adirondack Coordinator, while McCrea Burnham will hold that role for the Catskills. The two have worked in DEC’s Division of Lands and Forests, and will help coordinate efforts laid out by advisory groups in each region to address a number of issues, including increased visitation. WAMC's Jim Levulis spoke with the pair about their new roles.
Levulis: McCrea, you've been selected to serve as the Catskill Coordinator for the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. What's your experience in the region and with the agency?
Burnham: Well, I started off being raised in the Catskills in Roscoe, New York. Then I started with the department in about 1997 in a grant's office, and I was lucky enough to move to the Division of Lands and Forest in about 2003, where we do the bulk of the state land management. And I've been in a stewardship role with the division and the department since 2003 doing a lot of trail maintenance, volunteer coordination, and working with partners to improve state land access.
Levulis: Josh, you have been tapped to be the Adirondack Coordinator. What's your familiarity with the area and as well as your experience with DEC?
Clague: When I started working for DEC almost 14 years ago actually, my role this entire time has been a planning section leader for the Forest Preserve. So it has included both the Adirondacks and Catskills. But I've spent a considerable amount of time traveling up to the Adirondacks and seeing different parts of the park as part of my work. And actually, it's my work that has actually led me to develop a passion on a personal level. We've spent many vacations in the Adirondacks, my family and I since first taking this job, so we now actually probably head up once or twice a year, every year for vacation.
Levulis: And what do each of you see as your main goals for your respective regions and your respective roles? McCrea, maybe we can start with you in the Catskills?
Burnham: Well, you know, I think the main goal is to take the interim report that is, you know it's not public yet. But there's a Catskill Advisory Group out working on a report. And I believe that that report is calling for the creation of this position. And I think I'm going to start with making sure I understand that, take that report and start trying to implement it. I'm going to focus on those efforts that the advisory group has asked us to look at.
Levulis: And Josh, there's also you know, a similar effort looking at the issues surrounding the Adirondacks. So what do you see as your main goals, your primary focuses heading into this position?
Clague: Well, I'm going to be a liaison between our leadership team here in Albany and all the regional interests, including DEC’s own staff, as well as the stakeholders and local governments, and making recommendations in both directions really, where I have that, that opportunity. So if folks from here need something to be communicated to the regions and vice versa. So I will be a communication instrument in some ways as well. Advocating for funding, discussing and suggesting priorities, identifying knowledge and expertise from both sides really to, you know, better inform our decision making. Also, I think it's going to be critical for us both, you know, finding common ground is something that we're always interested in doing as an agency. And I think that's one way that we both are going to have to kind of focus our efforts and play that role more intensively than the average person within the agency. So looking for common ground and using that as a starting point for finding solutions to our challenges.
Levulis: And right, because there's a number of as you both mentioned, advocacy organizations and interested parties in each region. You know, the Adirondack Council, the Adirondack Mountain Club, you have the Adirondack Park Agency, which is a state government body, those are ones that come to the top of mind for the Adirondacks. Then there's also Riverkeeper, the Catskill Center and the Catskill Mountain Club for that region of the state. There's a lot of groups, a lot of interested parties. How do you plan to work and approach that aspect of the job? Maybe McCrea, starting with you?
Burnham: Well we're going to need to develop relationships with them. Luckily, I think both Josh and I have good working relationships with many of the groups. But, you know, we're going have to you know improve those relationships with ones that maybe we don't know, as well. Bring them all in and listen to their needs or their desires. We’re not going to be able to deliver everything to everybody. But, you know bringing everybody together, continuing the work that has been created by, you know, the Commissioner of DEC called for the Catskill Advisory Group to create a report and sort of give us a vision of how these groups want to see the park. But continue that work, you know which isn't finished, I mean, that the Catskill Advisory Group is still hard at work. But even after you know that group has sort of put down their pen, bringing all these different stakeholders together, and continuing that work is going to be an important part of what I see my role as.
Levulis: Josh, was there anything else you wanted to add on that topic as it pertains to the Adirondacks?
Clague: Well, I would echo everything McCrea said. We have a High Peaks Advisory Group report that is already done that is filled with recommendations, but there's, you know, there's the whole park. And the park is big as well. And so not every, you know, local community or every stakeholder is bringing the same perspective or the same mission to the table. So it's really learning to appreciate the differences that everyone comes to the table with or approaches the department with their position and their needs. And then somehow, you know, finding a way that us, we, as caretakers of the forest preserve, that comes with a huge responsibility and that's our primary responsibility, but there's also a way to either accommodate or address these different and unique needs in a manner that still kind of fits within the spirit and the law, the legal you know realm of what it means to be forest preserve managers. So I kind of said that on my previous response, but really the common ground between what their needs are and what we have to offer and what our responsibilities are in finding a solution within that overlap.
Levulis: And one of the topics that's both been discussed as it pertains to the High Peaks group, and then, I believe, was also a focus of the of the Catskill report to come out is, is overused the popularity of each individual sector there. Could you just each maybe detail what are some of the approaches being considered or looked at as it pertains to overuse, the popularity, the use of the trails, that sort of thing as it pertains to each region? Maybe starting Josh with you in the Adirondacks?
Clague: So the most pressing issue really is the High Peaks. Right now, the increasing use, we're all seeing in that region has got a lot of press, and many of us are aware of it, and worked to make parking and access safe along the [Route] 73 corridor. Really, it's already underway. So there's some things that are happening. And that's one of the big things. There's a shuttle system that's been implemented for this year. And I'm really interested to see how that's worked. There's also a permit system that's been implemented at the Adirondack Mountain Reserve. And by every indication that I'm hearing so far that that has really helped address some of the safety and parking issues along the road as well. We need to make a concerted attempt to better understand kind of what the impacts are on the interior as well. So we need to shift our focus now, a little bit more focus towards the interior of the High Peaks Wilderness lands, and to understand like, what the impacts are to the wilderness itself, as well as to those that are experiencing it, you know, the user experience. We need to also come to collectively identify and understand what the desired experience should be and whether or not the current experiences of folks are matching up with that. From this and depending on what the evidence tells us, I think we should experiment with different actions and try to push us in the direction of actually realizing on the ground what we want those desired conditions to be and how they should manifest themselves.
Levulis: McCrea, how about for the Catskills in terms of overuse? What are some of the things being looked at there?
Burnham: Well, the Catskills, they implemented a permit system at the Blue Hole. We've done a great deal of sustainability and access improvements at the Kaaterskill Clove and Kaaterskill Falls proper. But we have some of the same issues as the Adirondacks with the Route 23 corridor. We're always talking about parking and safety and they run into very similar issues. And I know the locals are very interested in creating some sort of shuttle system. And the department is looking to be a partner in that we. We don't run the shuttle necessarily in the High Peaks and I don't think we can necessarily run the shuttle in the Route 23 corridor, but we want to be part of that decision making process and, and try to make improvements with the locals. Because it is part of the solution of parking and safety. The other thing that the department has done in recent years and in both parks, we've really been trying to create more sustainable trails, we've got a long way to go. But we’re making an investment in sustainable trails and in investment in stewards, to educate the public about the proper use of our state lands in both parks and quite frankly, statewide. So there's been some investment to date, maybe not enough, but we are working to improve visitor use, you know, make sure they understand what is expected of them now, with stewards across the state.
