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Harrington catches Shugrue on inaccurate claims about broken windows policing support at Berkshire DA debate

The August 15th, 2022 Berkshire District Attorney debate at the Berkshire Athenaeum.
Josh Landes
/
WAMC
The August 15th, 2022 Berkshire District Attorney debate at the Berkshire Athenaeum.

The two candidates in the Democratic primary race for Berkshire District Attorney met for a televised debate in Pittsfield, Massachusetts Monday night.

Incumbent Andrea Harrington and challenger Timothy Shugrue fielded questions from iBerkshires, Berkshire Edge, and WAMC panelists on Pittsfield Community Television in the basement of the Berkshire Athenaeum.

Harrington was elected in 2018 on a progressive reform platform, while Shugrue is running on his 36 years of legal experience as both a prosecutor and defense attorney.

WAMC asked Harrington and Shugrue to articulate their stances on prosecuting lower level offenses.

“There was a certain category of cases that really does more harm than good for us to be prosecuting them in the courts," said Harrington. "And that's an area where my office has made huge changes by not prosecuting those low level cases that really are driven by mental health issues, substance use disorder in poverty. The benefits of this are well documented. There was a study that was done in Suffolk County that showed that 58% of the people whose cases were dismissed, low level cases were dismissed, did not come back into the courts within a two year period. So it's really demonstrated that when somebody comes into the court system, they're more likely to come back. And that study really showed the positive benefits of that. It also builds trust in the community, so that when we're investigating serious violent crime, we have more trust and we can get people to cooperate.”

“I believe in doing progress, which is what progressive is supposed to mean, and progress is giving people help," said Shugrue. "I believe that we have a statutory diversionary system called chapter 276, section 87. I don't believe in getting convictions for these individuals, but I believe in providing the resources we have in the court system, resources we have with probation, to get people the help they need. I know. I've dealt with addicts on a daily basis who have substance use disorders. It's difficult for them to get help and to get services. By providing those services through the court system, we do two things. One, we attack the substance use disorder, and we also deal with the underlying problem, what was the reason for getting into using drugs.”

This prompted a sharp rebuttal from Harrington.

“People should be very concerned that they have somebody who's a legitimate candidate for district attorney who doesn't even understand the basic premise of harm reduction and doesn't understand what all the science and the research and what public health tells us, which is that stigmatizing and criminalizing substance use disorder and mental health issues and poverty leads to just failure," she said. "It's a failed system. It's going back to what we've been trying for the past 40 years. Hasn't worked. It's created huge racial disparities and cycles of poverty that need to be broken. It's got to end, and I really want this community to move forward instead of being dragged back into the past.”

“We need a district attorney that has experience, that's been in the game, that knows what happens on a daily basis with people in the court system," said Shugrue. "We need a district attorney that can help people out when they need them. Not someone who's just talking about policies and philosophies. I've seen it work. I've seen it as representing defendants for 20 years. I've seen it when I prosecuted. What we need to do is make sure that we understand all the intricacies of being in that courtroom, because that courtroom is a significant place. I've been there for 36 years. I've taken care and helped individuals out they've been, the marginalized defendants that have been treated so poorly.”

The pair also clashed during a question about reducing gun violence in the community.

“I've seen in the last six months so many cases get reduced down from what could be jail sentences down to no jail sentences and being pled out," said Shugrue. "That to me is not acceptable. We can't tolerate gun violence in our community. 15 shootings since February is not acceptable to me, it shouldn't be acceptable to you.”

“That's just simply not true," said Harrington. "My office very aggressively prosecutes the gun cases here in Berkshire County. We send people to state prison, we send people to the house of correction for lengthy sentences. And yes, sometimes these minimum mandatory sentences result in 12, 15, 20 years of a young person going to state prison. It presents huge racial disparities. But there has not been a single shooting in this community because my office has made a mistake in not asking somebody to be held.”

As in her 2018, Harrington was challenged on her comparative lack of courtroom experience.

“Well the true fact is you've tried one superior court case as a district attorney. Even though it was a strong case, you lost it," said Shugrue. "And your comment was that it was a good learning experience. The DA's office is not is not a place for on-the-job training, especially by the person at the top.”

“There’s very experienced lawyers on the Supreme Court who have reached the pinnacle of their career, and yet they made decisions to take away the rights of women to reproductive health care," said Harrington. "So just in and of itself, having experience doesn't mean that you're going to fulfill the vision and the values of the people of this community.”

While Shugrue maintained that his office would be mindful of systemic inequities, Harrington characterized him as a reactionary, tough on crime candidate.

“I’m sorry, you cannot be pushing for broken windows policing and say that you are worried about racial disparities in the criminal legal system," said the DA. "Because, you know, all the research, all the studies shows that broken windows policing has been devastating for Black and Brown people in this community and across this country. It has led to mass incarceration. That is not what this community is going to go back to.”

The broken windows theory of policing, introduced in the 1980s, promotes targeting minor crimes to discourage more serious crimes. The controversial method was popularized by New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani in the 1990s.

“This is the misinformation coming out of the Harrington campaign," responded Shugrue. "Not once, not once, have I myself or anybody in my campaign ever endorsed broken windows policy. Doesn't exist, we don't believe in it. There's been racial inequality in that. We have never once said we support broken windows policies”

“I have it on tape," said Harrington. "So you know, I say it with good authority.”

“I want to hear that tape, because never in my life have I said the word broken windows," said Shugrue. "That just hasn't come out. So that's the misinformation that comes out of this campaign.”

Like Harrington, WAMC also has Shugrue’s endorsement of broken windows policing on tape. It came during a July 13th interview with William Sturgeon on WTBR’s “Morning Drive.”

“I go back to Wilson’s broken window theory, and that worked marvelously in New York and several other major cities,” said Sturgeon.

“Absolutely," said Shugrue. "It's important that we address the issues. It doesn't say necessarily you have to be, you know, tough on those issues, but you've got to be able to address them in the criminal justice system.”

Shugrue doubled down on the concept again later in the interview.

“I think just kicking the can down the road's a mistake," he said. "I think it's important. And I agree with you, the broken window theory is a good example of that. It's that, I think you've got to really make sure that we look at stuff and address them, rather than just ignore them.”

You can hear the full debate here:

DA DEBATE 8-15-22.mp3

Josh Landes has been WAMC's Berkshire Bureau Chief since February 2018, following stints at WBGO Newark and WFMU East Orange. A passionate advocate for Western Massachusetts, Landes was raised in Pittsfield and attended Hampshire College in Amherst, receiving his bachelor's in Ethnomusicology and Radio Production. His free time is spent with his cat Harry, experimental electronic music, and exploring the woods.
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