Does Zoom count as the people’s house?
In today’s Congressional Corner, Massachusetts Congressman Jim McGovern, a Democrat from the second district, wraps up his conversation with WAMC’s Alan Chartock.
This interview was recorded April 28.
Alan Chartock: Here we are in the Congressional Corner with Jim McGovern, one of my favorite people that we have on the show because he is incredibly honest and outspoken and we really love having him. Okay, so let me let me begin here. Jim McGovern, there have been some people who think that Congress should vote from their homes. A few weeks ago, Nancy Pelosi threw cold water on the idea, what's the latest? What is the Rules Committee doing in designing something like this?
Jim McGovern: Well, I actually wrote a piece for The Washington Post that appeared today on this very topic saying that we were not functioning the way we should. And we ought to change our rules to allow remote committee hearings, and to read and to allow remote voting by proxy. Look, there's some challenges here. There are constitutional issues that we have to deal with. There are security issues, there are logistical issues. And there's also the issue that we have some members of Congress who still use flip phones. So they're not comfortable with technology. And we use Zoom for example, but you know, there have been some security issues with that where people have interrupted the proceedings and so we got we got to get this right so my suggestion is, I think we can do it with hearings, we could do remote hearings do video conferencing. And we could use that as practice. And you know, and I say remote voting by proxy, where it is that some people can come to Washington, those who can can give me your proxy and say, and instruct me how you want me to vote on every single vote. You know, in order for us to be consistent with the Constitution, you have to tell me everything and you will be recorded as having voted. You know, that's kind of a low tech approach, but if this thing goes on for a long time, maybe we can get Congress up to where they're comfortable with some higher tech stuff and we could be more confident in security but we're a legislative body. And we need to be, you know, I mentioned this before about this committee that I put together, that I mean that I offered to do oversight of all the trillions of dollars that are being spent in response to this crisis to make sure it's going where it needs to go. But we can't have formal hearings. Unless we're all together. I mean, that those are our rules, you have to change the rules. So I urged Nancy Pelosi and I urged Kevin McCarthy, a Republican leader to bring this to the floor, let us vote to change our rules. And we’d only utilize this like during pandemics, during something extraordinary like this. But we're being told that we may have a little bit of a lull in the summertime in terms of this virus, and we could see an uptick in the fall. Well if we have to do social distancing again in the fall, you know we better have some procedures in place that allow us to function. We have to pass appropriation bills to keep the government running. You know, we may have to pass other legislation to help people during this time. We need to, there's a whole bunch of stuff we need to do. So I get it, people are all like, Oh, you know, this is the way it's always been for 231 blah blah blah blah blah. I get it. But you know, in the past, we've talked about these things, we speculated. Right now we're in a crisis. And we need to make sure that we function. The European Union is using video conferencing and they’re using email to vote. I mean, they're figuring a way around this. Other parliaments around the world are doing it as well, you know, for us to be effective, for us to do our oversight, we need we need to figure out how to operate in the middle of a pandemic, and I think we can do that.
Okay. So let me ask you a question. It's the kind of thing that each of us is thinking. When we talk to a congressman. We're sitting here, you know, we're scared to death of getting this thing, everybody is. And you must be too, and Members of Congress must be too. So my question is, what are what precautions are members of Congress taking to be sure they don't get COVID?
Well, the attending physician in the Capitol has put out guidance. You know, we're supposed to wear face masks, and we're supposed to be six feet apart from each other, you know, the same stuff that everybody else is being told. And, we were in session last week, and some of us follow the guidance, as carefully as we could. There are others who chose not to, I think, an act of defiance or you know, they want to show how fearless they are. And I, scolded some of my colleagues in the House floor who decided to show that they don't need to do all this. Quite frankly my concern is for them is if you're not going to listen to the medical advice, then that's your problem. But I'm worried about everybody else in the chamber. I'm worried about the staff. I’m worried about the people who support the operations of the Congress, the people who work the cameras and the audio equipment, the people who clean the Capitol, and I go on and on and on. I mean, again, you know, I mean, these members who, they may be carriers, and the fact that they're not wearing a mask, that they are not practicing social distancing, I mean, that's, that's just irresponsible. And so, yeah, there is advice that we're supposed to adhere to, most of us are doing it, some choose not to. And I think that's unfortunate. So, we're also told that probably the most dangerous places for members of Congress, in terms of doing our business, is hanging around at airports. You know, and we’re waiting for planes to get back and forth. I've been driving back and forth to, to Washington, DC. I could do it, and then it doesn't take as long because there's nobody on the road right now. But, you know, but others if you look at California or Alaska, I mean, you can't, or you can't drive without substantial notice. So this is serious. And again, it's not about protecting members of Congress. It’s about protecting everybody we come in contact with, including our families. And I think we have to be responsible. That's why I think we need to look at remote voting and remote hearings during this crisis.
Let me talk to you about one of the people frankly, don't like the most, and that's Mitch McConnell, who was criticized the latest Senate bill as a blue state bailout. Yet the Republican tax cuts were not paid for either. What's going on?
Yeah, he has a heart of stone.
You think he has a heart?
Yeah, well, if he does have a heart it's turned to stone. But he, you know, some of these states that he complains about, contribute more, you know, to the federal government than the federal government gives to them. No question. And I just, you know, and again, I mean, and here's one of the things, and Mitch McConnell is guilty of this. And, and the president is guilty of this, you know, during this time where tens of thousands of people are dying, where people are nervous and anxious and people are hungry, I mean, there's no empathy. There's no acknowledgement of how difficult it is for so many people in this country right now. And, it's these, rightwing knee-jerk, talking points that are heartless, that just are so unwelcome at this time. I mean, the answer that every member of Congress and then the president should give is absolutely, we're going to help. Anything we can, and we're going to work with you to find the best way to help. Because this is a crisis like we have never seen in our lives ever. I mean, this is never like, this is not business as usual. I mean, this is a monumental, terrible, awful thing that is going on right now. And we all need to deal with it. And we need to care about everyone, everybody, not just not just us, but our families, our neighbors, and other people who live all across this country.
I only have one minute and I want to get to another subject really quickly. You supported Senator Warren for the presidency. She's not going to get that, should she be the vice presidential nominee?
I think she'd be great vice presidential nominee but you know, I mean, I that's gonna be up to Vice President Biden but he said he’d pick a woman. I think that’s important. And I think I think Elizabeth would be great. But you know, every time I get behind somebody, they don't seem to win. So I'm trying to be careful. But I think she would be magnificent. Look, I love Elizabeth Warren, and I think she's a great senator, and she'd be a great Vice President. I thought she'd be a great president.
Jim McGovern. It's always such a pleasure to have you on WAMC. We love talking to you. We always learn something and we thank you so much for being with us.
Well, be safe.
We're going to try. You too.
