The Woodstock Film Festival is about to honor a living legend. Director and screenwriter James Ivory of the Merchant Ivory partnership created dozens of award-winning films including “Howards End,” “The Remains of the Day,” and “Mr. and Mrs. Bridge,” to name just a few.
As part of the festival, Ivory’s film “The City of Your Final Destination” will be shown and Ivory will sit for a conversation with author Peter Cameron, whose novel was made into that film. The screening is set for Sept. 30 at 2 p.m. at the Woodstock Playhouse.
Ivory is now 95. At age 89, he became the oldest Oscar winner for adapting “Call Me By Your Name.”
I wanted to get your thoughts on the ongoing writers’ and actors’ strikes that have roiled Hollywood so much.
Cameron: Well, I find it personally very frustrating, because I have two films that were in the process of being developed, adaptations of my novels. And of course, both projects are stalled, and, you know, casts were assembled. And now the idea of trying to recreate the film with those same actors looks like it might be proved difficult to do. But that said, you know, I'm very sympathetic, I realize how much the whole idea of filmmaking and distribution has changed in over the last decade, and that we do have to find new ways to compensate fairly people who are, you know, creating these films.
And James, what's your perspective on it?
Ivory: Well, I'm in somewhat in a position like Peter’s. I also have a project that would probably be linked to one of the studios. And so I can't work on that either. And I am sympathetic, of course. And, I mean, I feel that there's a history of this kind of thing of not paying the artists who create the movie companies and are the reason for their existence, and not really paying them anything if they can avoid it. So this is a kind of another attempt at that, I think. I am sympathetic, of course.
Generally speaking, what do you both make of the dramatic shift away from theaters and toward a streaming model in movies?
Ivory: Well, I always liked to be able to go to a theater and see whatever I wanted to see, and whatever sounded interesting to me and I liked that. And now that's no longer possible. And even in New York City, where there are very few actual theaters that show the latest films that have come along, particularly overseas films, European, foreign language films, and so on. And it's very frustrating not to be able to do that. And I'm not a person who's just in front of a TV very much anyway. So that's how I look at it.
Cameron: think it just because, Jim, you're one of the people who previous to the most recent years went out and saw more movies in anybody I knew. I mean, you were always going out, two or three times a week, to a movie theater to see a film.
Ivory: Exactly. Yeah. And now it’s maybe once a month..
Cameron: And I think I earlier on started streaming and stopped going to movie theaters. So I am now more in the habit of watching things at home. But I can see for somebody like you who grew up going to movie theaters and maintained that habit, that practice for such a long time, how the experience of seeing movies not on a big screen, it’s sort of a real disappointment and we don't experience films at all the same way, which is one of the reasons why I'm so looking forward to the screening of ‘City of Your Final Destination’ Saturday, because I've only seen it on a real screen once or twice. The opportunity to see it again on the screen is a real privilege and very exciting.
Ivory: I rarely get to see my own films on a big screen. It's almost practically never. So when a film festival comes along and wants to show one of them, I always want I sit right there.
Let's talk about ‘The City of Your Final Destination.’ To date, James, this is the last film you directed. Peter, you, of course, worked with James Ivory on his memoirs, ‘Solid Ivory.’ How did the two of you begin working together?
Cameron: Well, my dream was always to have my books made into films by Merchant Ivory. So I had made sure that my agent had sent all my novels there and nothing had ever happened until we sent ‘City of Your Final Destination’ there.
Ivory: Ruth Jhabvala had read it and she said, I think this is something for us, maybe. Have a look, that kind of thing. And I had a look and we were able to make the film. And wanted to very much.
Cameron: I think one of the unusual things about Merchant Ivory is so many film writer, don't like writers at all, especially novelists. But Jim was very interested in in my ideas about the book and the film. And so, you know, Ruth wrote the screenplay, but Jim kept me very much involved in the process. And so in that way our friendship developed. And that then led us to working together on his memoirs.
Peter, were you on the set with James and the crew?
Cameron: I did. They filmed in Argentina. And I did go down there for about three weeks, because Ruth was unable to travel down there, and Jim thought it would be good to have a writer on the set. And I was very happy to go. It’s the first film set that I had participated in in that way. And it was a lovely experience.
Ivory: It is a wonderful experience to have to have the writer on the set. I mean, it's rare that that ever happens. And it's not suddenly asked them to give you a new line for this or that, though, that that sometimes does happen. But it's wonderful. They become part of the process of actually turning what they wrote into a film and in a way. Their spirit is there with you and that's very encouraging.
Peter, you said that you couldn't wait for Merchant Ivory to make one of your books into a film. Not all authors like to see adaptations of their work in that way. How come you were so keen?
Cameron: Well, I think I was keen on Merchant Ivory doing it because I feel like they are so brilliant at adapting, you know, novels into films, it’s sort of what they have specialized in. And many of my favorite films, you know, like ‘Room with a View’ and the other Forster novels are adaptations they've made. And I'm very aware as a novelist that when you give your book to a filmmaker, you're basically letting it go and letting them do whatever they want with it. And you have to be OK with that. But I felt with Merchant Ivory, I guess, I had a sense of that the book would be at least treated with respect and dignity, and that there would be a sort of a central understanding of what the book was. And that proved to be true, because I think they are interested in recreating books as movies, and doing it in a purely cinematic way, which, of course, is a very different way to tell the story. But I think that's something they do brilliantly.
Ivory: Well, if we do it well, it's because our screenwriter Ruth Jhabvala is herself a wonderful fiction writer, novelist and has written many novels. And so I just thought that I was extremely lucky having Ruth with me because of her long experience as a fiction writer, and as a fiction writer, of course, you think up things and write whatever you like. And that's a big plus.
Cameron: Ruth, her whole life, she went back and forth between really writing screenplays and novels. And so I think it's rare to find a writer who has that sensibility that they can tell stories in both those formats, which seem so similar, but I think are very different.
A lot of times, a creative partnership in filmmaking can last for a few projects, but certainly not as long as the Merchant Ivory relationship with Ruth that you're talking about. And James, I was wondering if you could explain the alchemy that was at play between the three of you?
Ivory: Well, we were all very, very good friends. And that friendship began with a novel of Ruth’s, which is ‘The Householder,’ which was our first film. And none of us had ever made a film. I mean, Ismail had never produced one, I'd never directed a feature film; I had directed documentaries. And Ruth had never written a screenplay. And we went to see her. And because we wanted to turn ‘The Householder,’ this was a film set in India, we wanted to turn that into our first film, and well, we just hit it off. And though Ruth's husband thought, they’ll be just like all the others. They’ll come and talk and all that nice stuff, and then they’ll run away and you'll never see them again. That was what he thought would happen. But in fact, we were two families that became absolutely linked for decades. And Merchant Ivory was linked for decades with Ruth as our principal writer. I have made films with other writers, once in a while I've done that, and that worked out well also, but nothing like the ongoing friendship and collaboration with Ruth. We would have ideas about this and that, and we’d toss them around. And sometimes we’d decide that the idea wasn't good enough or interesting enough to do and, and so we had these kinds of discussions, which you don't always. A filmmaker doesn't always get to have that with the writer. I mean, that's rare. So anyway, we're all very close, and still are. I mean, Ruth is gone and Ismail is gone. But the children are there. And we're close with them.
If you don't mind my asking, you are, of course, the last of the triumvirate. How has your work process changed, if at all, given that?
Ivory: Well, I'm somewhat lazier now, I suppose. I don't you know, I've reached an age where it's not likely that I would actually ever be able to direct another feature film. I am 95. And I'm sure I would never get insured, though there are people who are even older than I am who have gone on making films. There was a Portuguese guy who was directing well into his hundreds.
Do you miss directing films?
Ivory: Yeah, I do somewhat. Once in a while for one reason or another, I have to be on a set and recently I had to be on a set a lot. But I'm more an onlooker at that time. I'm not really that involved. And sometimes people want my opinion on this and that, and I give it if I have one. So, yeah, I guess I do miss it. But I don't think I could do it. I mean, I don't think I'd have the physical strength to do it. Let alone the mental strength. So.
Cameron: I think one of the things that made you such a good film director was that you were so good at hiring good people and people who could do their jobs and understood your sensibility, but could bring their own talent and knowledge to your films. And so I think so many directors, you know, try and do everything. But you were always surrounded by people who I think respected you and who you respected.
Ivory: I respected them because I was learning from them, just as I was learning from Ruth. I was learning from my set designers and my costume designers and the hair and makeup people, I didn't know any of those things. And I learned all that from them. And that was a terrific process for me. I mean, I've been in a way, educated by the people I've worked with on my films, and that includes the actors. You're just a fool if you don't take something useful from the people that you’ve worked with. And there are a lot of directors who, I'm sorry, but they don't do that. And people give them wonderful ideas. I've heard awful stories. They just dismiss it because they do have huge egos. They think they know everything. They don't know everything.
One thing I noticed in the ‘City of Your Final Destination,’ but also the Paul Newman Joanne Woodward film ‘Mr. And Mrs. Bridge’ is the trope of home movies, which factors into both of those movies. Did home movies play a role or an important role in your life, James?
Ivory: Not really. No. It was rare that I saw home movies. I mean, once in a while, but no. But they have been important to a lot of people. And in certain of my stories, they are important features. My thing was going to some big theater and sitting back and doing this several times a week for years and years from about the age of 12 on.
So if you don't mind me asking, you're 95 years old, as you said. You certainly don't sound 95. Do you have a secret or any wisdom that you've arrived at by living this long?
Ivory: You know, I've been asked that question many times lately. And it boils down to one thing, I think you have to have curiosity. If you have a really strong curiosity about everything in life and everything you do and just generally, have a very, very strong curiosity. I think that takes you along. And I think that's why I'm still here, because I still have a curiosity about all sorts of things. And I think if I ever lose that, I'll think this is the end now.
Cameron: I’m always aware that when I meet with Jim, he always has something to tell me about something recently that he's either read or seen or discovered or thought about. And it amazes me, because I think as you get older, it's very hard. It's very easy detach yourself from the world and sort of lose interest in things. And if anything, James has never done that. He has never turned off.
Ivory: Well, partly it's because I been blessed by having the most wonderful health in my life. And if I was sick all the time or falling apart? I don't think it would be like that. But I've been very, very, very lucky in terms of health.
I was going to wind up by asking you, Peter, what you have planned for the conversation with James Ivory on Sept. 30. I don't envy you because he's had so much work and such a long, rich filmography to talk about, but what do you have planned for this event at Woodstock Playhouse?
Cameron: I’ve actually learned to be very reactive. I think it's always interesting after people have seen a film. So many people are so familiar with Jim's work that they do have questions about so many different films and experience he's had. And so I just plan to let the conversation go where it wants to go. And I feel like having worked for so long with Jim on his memoirs, I do feel like I know a lot of his stories, so and enjoy so many of his stories. So that's good, too. Him getting this wonderful Lifetime Achievement Award, it will be a great way to celebrate that. I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about.
Ivory: Well, in all honesty, let me just say, I have always been in awe of writers. And very often I keep my mouth shut. Maybe that will happen this time.
