Karl Moore is a prolific writer and hosts The CEO Series podcast in which he interviews prominent business and political leaders. He is an associate professor at McGill University in Montreal, an associate at Oxford University and regularly writes for Forbes magazine. Moore recently published a new book, “We are All Ambiverts Now,” and when he visited the Canadian Parliament to talk about the book, he was formally recognized for his body of work by the Canadian Senate.
Moore sat down with WAMC North Country Bureau Chief Pat Bradley recently to talk about his book and the Senate recognition. The conversation began with Moore explaining what an ambivert is:
The word ambivert was invented years ago here in the US, in the 1920s by a psychologist who's long gone and really has been neglected in the literature. And what an ambivert is, it's like ambidextrous where, if you’re ambidextrous can use either hand. An ambivert is someone who acts like an extrovert at times and acts like an invert at other times. And what the argument is as a senior leader, and based on hundreds of conversations in my CEO radio show and my CEO class over the last 10 years, is that as a senior leader, you've got to shut up and listen like a good introvert in order to learn strategy and learn what people's ideas and be an inspiring leader. But other times you got to go John's retiring after 40 years and without John we would not be what we are today, and get up at the front and praise John to no end because that's the right thing to do as a leader. But you only do it on occasion, Pat. And you try to be true to yourself, whether you're more introverted or extroverted. Probably about 20% of people are genuine ambiverts, 40% are extroverts, 40% are inverts. It's a bell curve. I'm an extreme extrovert. Most people a little bit introvert or extroverted. But the idea is that as a leader, you must learn to be like the other on occasion.
Karl Moore, with the political situation across the world, would the idea of an ambivert be advantageous?
I think it's during when they're actually running the country. And I think Prime Minister (Mark) Carney is more of an introvert. Justin Trudeau, it's hard to fathom, but I knew him for years at McGill after I'd come to McGill, and he told me he was an introvert and I actually rolled my eyes. Because I was just like I was teasing him. But he said, no, no, I am. And he went through and talked about how he loved quiet breaks and being by himself. But he still became prime minister, and he knew better than anyone, because his dad been Prime Minister. He grew up in the Canadian equivalent of the White House. But he thought that he wanted to make the world a better place, and for his faults, he was trying to at least and did on occasion. Where he acted like an extrovert, and I'd seen him a number of times, like he's good looking, he's tall, he's the prime minister. He was the center of attention and crowds would gather. I've seen it. But he learned to, that it was very powerful to have a one on one with another leader or with people in the parliament to discuss why they should vote the way you're wanting them to. So it's something where to be an effective leader, you need to step away and listen and get ideas. But we need to listen more today, in today's world, messed up world, then 10 years ago. Which means that introverted, desire and ability and willingness to listen is even more valuable and one that we need to take on board even more than a decade ago.
Karl Moore, “We are all Ambiverts” is your latest book and it's always exciting to have a book published, but you've had an even more exciting experience happen lately over in Ottawa.
Canadian Senator Tony Loffreda speaks on the Senate floor:
“Honorable senators, I rise today to honor an outstanding Canadian whose career has left an enduring mark in academia and on the broader global conversation about leadership strategy and human dynamics. Honorable senators, please join me in celebrating Professor Karl Moore's exceptional career, intellectual curiosity and commitment to excellence. He has helped shape how we understand leadership and human potential in the 21st Century.”
I went up and gave a half hour talk in the book to the senators and staff there and then a friend of mine Tony Loffreda, who's a senator, long time senator, got up in the Senate and the first order of business was to speak very highly of me. He may have got carried away, but hey we get enough criticism Pat. Some praise we can live with! And I saw Tony at a restaurant yesterday in Montreal. It's a small world. And I said, Tony, in many, many, many years, my kids may play that at my funeral because it's such a wonderful signal honor.
Did you know that the senator was going to read this into the Senate record?
No, I mean, I was sitting up, they asked me to sit up in the public area above there and invited guests are allowed to sit. So I had no idea. So when he started speaking like I'm just blinking in surprise and as he read it, in pleasure, just hoping there wasn't a sting to the tail. And then the woman beside me said, I said, should I stand up? She said yes at the end stand up. So I did. And there was applause, you know, polite applause from the audience. But, but it was a, is a wonderful thing, and just getting a lot of wonderful feelings from it.
Before we leave Karl, I'm curious about the USMCA, the US, Mexico, Canada Agreement. Negotiations are supposed to be ongoing this year. What are your expectations for it?
Well, with Prime Minister Carney, we have someone who Canadians seem to appreciate his background at Goldman Sachs, running Goldman Sachs Canada; then the head of the Bank of Canada, the head of the Bank of England, the first non-Brit to do that. So this is someone who's played in the big leagues, who understands finance. So we have the right person in our corner to lead the discussion, the conversation. And he seems to get along with President Trump well. It's terribly important to Canadians because our biggest partner by far is the US. So we're really hopeful that things go in a reasonable direction for all three countries.
Karl Moore’s new book, “We are All Ambiverts Now,” features interviews with more than 700 top global executives. And a disclosure note, he is also a board member of Mountain Lake PBS, where WAMC’s North Country Bureau is located.
