This month marks the end of Massachusetts State Representative Smitty Pignatelli’s more than two decades representing the Southern Berkshires on Beacon Hill. The Democrat announced in February that he would not seek a 12th two-year term. The rare opening in the Berkshire legislative delegation saw a four-way race to replace Pignatelli that ended with November’s general election, with Great Barrington selectboard Vice Chair and fellow Democrat Leigh Davis winning the seat. With Davis preparing to be sworn in next month and the curtain call coming on his long career as a legislator, Pignatelli has yet to confirm his next steps. He spoke with WAMC about his reflections on what’s next for his district, the coming second term for President-elect Donald Trump, the outcome of the race to fill his seat, and more.
PIGNATELLI: No surprise to me at all. I mean, I had two very viable people running for this seat. I think Leigh ran a very aggressive campaign, raised a lot of money, and she ran to win. So, my hat goes off to her. I saw her just yesterday and gave her kudos again, and we're hoping to get together. I'm working on a transition memo as we speak to help her kind of hit the ground running when she gets there in January. But no, it's a good result. She worked hard, a good clean campaign, and that's we need more of.
WAMC: Now, when you think about preparing that to do list for Leigh Davis as she settles into the 3rd Berkshire seat, what is on your mind? As you look into 2025, and beyond, what should be at the top of her list.
Well, I think the constituent work has always been my number one priority. That's been the staple of my tenure in the state house, and building relationships. So, you kind of go down there thinking you know an awful lot, which I did 22 years ago, but I quickly learned I had a lot more to learn. So, building relationships and building coalitions, I think are going to be very, very important. And I think Leigh has a personality to do just that, but just to remember- It's a marathon, not a sprint. So, you’ve got to take your time, pace yourself, and just pay attention to what's going on. And in light of the presidential election and the concerns about what the federal government will be doing to cut federal programs, the next couple of years in Massachusetts could be a really serious financial challenge. So, we have to keep our Ian the ball of maintaining services and responding to our constituent work, but time will tell. But I'm very confident that she'll hit the ground running with whatever advice I can give her, but she's a smart woman anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that.
Can you draw on your experience back in 2016 during the first Trump presidency, and maybe offer some kind of guide to your fellow legislators who have not before experienced a transition that is likely to be quite as sharp as that between the Biden and Trump presidencies?
Well, like I say, it's a marathon not a sprint, and the economy goes through cycles. I remember when I first got elected, took office in 2003- Mitt Romney was our governor, we realized that we had about a $3 billion budget gap with five months ago in the fiscal year. So, we had to struggle through those situations. We saw the economy go up, we saw it tip down in ’08, ’09, ’10. So, it's a very cyclical cycle, but in President Trump's first presidency or first term, obviously, they were starting to cut federal programs like the LIHEAP program, Low Income Heating Assistance Program. So, Massachusetts could have ignored that, or we could have found a way to find the money to keep that program going- And that's exactly what we did. The questions we're going to have this time around is that the President Trump's agenda appears to be breaking down the Department of Education. That will have some serious consequences on education not only in Massachusetts, but across the country. The challenge that Massachusetts is going to have is, do we have the financial wherewithal to replicate or substitute those dollars that the federal government may cut from us? That's going to be the challenge because, as you know, the last couple of months, we have failed to meet our benchmarks for revenue. So, we may be entering a very challenging time. And long before the presidential election, I remember my one-on-one meeting with the chairman of Ways and Means for the budget. He said, we'll be fine for this fiscal year, I'm more worried about the next two fiscal years. That's what we're leading into, starting in January, with the new president and a new legislative session. So, I think the challenges were being anticipated anyways. They may be compounded for this new president.
I'm also interested in your impressions of Governor Maura Healey as you prepare to leave office. What are your thoughts on the governor's performance so far, and what are your thoughts on the kind of administration that Leigh Davis will be experiencing in this seat for the years to come?
I think Governor Healey and Lieutenant Governor Driscoll have kind of hit their stride now, which I think is great. They're more engaging than they were when they first entered into the process, which is understandable, but I think they’re clicking on all cylinders, and now that this presidential election is behind us, I think we need to focus on Massachusetts and try to provide those services. As you know, I've been a huge advocate of horizontal infrastructure improvements out here in the rural parts of Massachusetts. Economic development in Boston is how many cranes are in the air and the vertical construction. Out here, it's roads, bridges, sewer, water that we have to pay attention to. The bridges are getting a lot of attention here in the Berkshires that have been ignored for too long. We need to play catch up with that. So, I think making targeted investments in providing regional equity are what this administration is starting to do, and I think the legislature has to follow suit.
One of the major issues we heard about in this campaign – and we've heard about it throughout Berkshire County – is that of housing and the incredible crunch with available properties, qualities of those properties, expense of those properties. You're leaving office as the $5 billion Affordable Homes Act from the Healey administration starts to crank into operation- What are your thoughts on where Berkshire County, and especially the Southern Berkshires, are when it comes to housing as you prepare to leave office?
I think housing in the Southern Berkshires is more of a challenge than any other part of the Berkshires. The Berkshires as a whole has issues, but I think it's even worse in South Berkshire County. So, what I'm doing- I think the legislature and the governor stepped up in a big way with a five plus billion-dollar housing bond bill. So, monies are there. Cities and towns and regions need to develop plans. They're not just going to be there with their hand out and expecting a check from the state. Develop a plan, develop a product, and I believe the state will be there to support those initiatives. Look at what Egremont’s doing. I really admire what Egremont’s doing on a much smaller scale with some home ownership and some rentals. More and more towns could be replicating that in a smaller basis. I don't think there's one community anywhere in Berkshire County, certainly not in South Berkshire, that would want a 500-unit development in their town. But if we can do it patchwork – 25 here, 50 there, 35 there – I think we can achieve that goal, provide safe, clean housing affordability, and that is going to be a tremendous injection to fill our workforce needs as well, because those two are running on a parallel track. Workforce and housing, they're on the same path. If we can solve one, I think we're going to solve the other one.
Another major is through line from your time in office concerns the Housatonic River. I'm interested, this controversial and ongoing cleanup plan brokered by the EPA- With Lee Zeldin – who ran for governor in New York, of course, most recently, the Republican – being appointed head of the EPA by incoming President Donald Trump, any thoughts on how that might impact the settlement in the Southern Berkshires? Are you concerned at all that changes at the federal level might impact this downstream, so to speak?
That I don't at this point. I don't know a lot about Lee Zeldin, other than we get that New York news when he ran for governor. But the settlement is agreed upon. All five towns and then Pittsfield have a settlement in place. I mean, the EPA- I have biweekly calls with them. GE came out with a transportation plan that nobody liked. We went back to the drawing board, and we advocated for trains over trucks. They've responded in a very positive way. So, I think the agreement is in place. I think the new EPA administrator would be foolish to try to lessen that or make it more advantageous to the corporations and not to the people of Massachusetts. I think we need to keep an eye on it, but I'm not as concerned as some folks may be. It's in place, it's moving forward, and there's no reason in my mind to put the brakes on it yet.
You were opposed to Question 1 on the Massachusetts ballot, the push by State Auditor Diana DiZoglio to audit the state legislature. It was ultimately a very popular question. It passed with almost 72% of the vote, something over 2.2 million Massachusetts residents backed it. What are your thoughts on that, where seems like the people have spoken in this back and forth between Democrats on Beacon Hill over transparency in the legislature?
If she feels that they need to audit the books of the legislature, I don't think it should be that big of a deal. It probably will be settled in the courts, to see what happens. But yeah, no, people overwhelmingly- no surprise to me om that vote. In fact, if anything, I'm surprised it wasn't bigger, because I've always said that people like their legislator, but they really don't trust the legislature. So, with that in mind, I thought the vote would be much bigger, but I am of the belief that if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to worry about. So, if there's some legal mechanism to open up the books, then go for it. I don't think there's much to be worried about, and certainly nothing she's going to be surprised at. The non-disclosure agreements, I think, are a very sensitive area that, that has been her staple of trying to have greater transparency. I think that could be very controversial, and I think we need to be protecting the reputations of the people who actually signed those two parties, signed a nondisclosure agreement, and I don't want her to be leading only with that. I think that's a difficult issue, but the transparency side- If you’ve got nothing to hide, you got nothing to worry about. So, open the books.
What were your other major takeaways from election day? Obviously, Question 2, the removal of the MCAS as a graduation requirement, another big conversation. Any thoughts on that or other ballot questions this election cycle?
Well, I've never, never been a big fan of the MCAS test as the sole requirement for graduation. The question now is going to be, what will the legislature do? So, it's not just the people voted, it's a mandate- What will the legislature do with it? This is what the new legislative session is going to be about, and the new state rep is going to have to address that as well. The people have voted. Let's see what the legislature actually does with it. As you remember, we through the ballot initiative they legalized recreational marijuana, but it took the legislature almost four years to fine tune it, make sure it was a legal document. So, these ballot initiatives, which I'm never a big fan of, it's a government by petition, I think shows weak government- But I’ve never been a big fan of MCAS. I think it's a poor sole barometer to graduation. I think it's a good way to measure the effectiveness of a school district, but to hold a young person accountable to, you can only graduate if this happens, I think is wrong. The legislature is going to have to address that, and I'm hopeful that that could be eliminated.
Again, looking into sort of the end of another chaotic year, I'm interested if you have a message to Southern Berkshire County about ways that they might best express themselves to Leigh Davis, your successor. You're sort of famous for your outreach to constituents- How do you think constituents can best shape their own governance by communicating with their representatives? What's your guide to that?
Well, I think with me – and I don’t think Leigh will be any different – is, not afraid to show up. Listen to people. You got two ears and one mouth, so listen twice as much as you speak. But hear different ideas. My dad always told me to talk to as many people as possible. Someone may have an idea that you've not thought of, so if you're going down to Boston thinking you know it all, you're going to get it all figured out, you're in for a short term. So go down there with an open mind and an open heart and be responsive to the people that actually hire and fire you, and that's the people in the district. I've been in that State House for 22 years, and I have yet to find a single person that ever voted for Smitty Pignatelli on Election Day, because the people that vote for you, that hire and fire every two years, live in the district, not on Beacon Hill. So don't get Beacon Hill-itis. Make sure you come home, show up at events, listen to people, and I think she'll have a very successful run if she does that.
I asked you this earlier in the year when you announced your decision to not run for reelection, but I'm interested in your regrets from this experience. What are things that you think you didn't get right, or things you wish you'd approached [differently]- At the end of the day, what are some of those open doors that you wish you'd walked through over the last 20 plus years?
I really don't, I honestly don't have any regrets. I came in with an amazing delegation that I learned from. I wish there was more mentor, mentee type relationship, so I don't see that as much at the State House as when I first started. But honestly, I have no regrets, no second thoughts. I've had a good run. I can stand by every vote that I've taken – right, wrong, or indifferent – and it moved forward. And I'm very proud of my time in the State House and the people that I've represented. I think they knew where Smitty was, and it was Smitty. It wasn't representative this or senator that, or chairman this or chairman that, it was “call Smitty.” And I'm really proud of that fact. So, no second thoughts, no regrets. Good run, and I'm very proud of the work that I was able to accomplish.
What is your message to constituents as America moves into likely another- This is obviously a deeply Democratic part of a deeply Democratic state, we’re moving back into the leadership of a deeply controversial and polarizing figure in Donald Trump. Do you have a message for your constituents moving forward without [your] familiar face into this era to offer some sort of advice or comfort or any- Any message come to mind?
Let's agree to disagree, and let's disagree without being disagreeable. Social media has created a monster in so many ways with our interacting with our elected officials. Pick up the phone, stop them at the street corner, stop them at the gas station, and engage in dialogue. You can learn by talking to other people and not be overzealous on Facebook or some other social media form. So, I'm more of a personal type person, and let's engage with that, and just don't venture anger through a letter to the editor or through social media. So, don't be afraid. That's what I love about the House of Representatives- As you know, I've had three opportunities to run for the Senate in Berkshire County. All three times I said no, because I enjoyed the House of Representatives. We are the representatives. We are closer to the people. Nobody should be afraid to approach Leigh Davis or Smitty Pignatelli, and Leigh Davis and Smitty Pignatelli should never be afraid to approach them because they have a different point of view. And I think if we had more of that dialogue in politics, I think our narrative nationwide would be much better than what it is today.
I'm interested in your thoughts on the state of democracy in Massachusetts. It's a commonwealth that has so many uncontested races, and often so little interparty debate over these ground-level runs. This was such a rare opportunity with your departure to see a really contested primary. What are your thoughts on the state of democracy in Massachusetts? Are things healthy here, or are you concerned about the lack of contested races throughout the commonwealth?
Well, I think they're healthy, but I think they could be healthier. And I say that from the standpoint that, people should have – and here I am saying this on the way out the door, that there should be more contested races – but I mean that from the standpoint that these jobs in government, and you're seeing it at the local level as well, are not as attractive as they once were. And why is that? And I think it's got to do with the scrutiny, the 24/7 media cycle that goes on. They're watching every turn you take. I think people are feeling, you know what, I can make more money working in the private sector, being home on weekends with my family instead of going to a chicken dinner in some remote town on a Saturday night in March. I just think it's getting harder and harder because of the personal attacks that are being made to government. When I was younger and my dad was running, the issue was against his opponent himself. Now they bring in the family, and I think that's disheartening to a lot of people who are saying, you know what, I can do more on the outside of politics. Public service is an honorable profession. We need to bring back the mutual respect that we’ve had, that we can agree to disagree. Until we do that, I think you're going to see fewer and fewer races. Now, would I have had opposition if I decided to run again? Maybe, maybe not. It's an open seat, but I was so glad that, what, four people, four people in the Berkshires had an idea that they could run for state representative. And Leigh Davis is the victor, but we're not seeing the next generation of people getting involved locally as a stepping stone to maybe running for statewide office at some point. That's the part that concerns me going forward, is the quality of the people running for office and the ability to engage in intellectual debate and having disagreements without being disagreeable.
And lastly, anything I've not thought to ask you, Smitty, that you want to communicate to the constituents in the Southern Berkshires as you prepare to leave? What's your farewell message to the people who have supported you for over 20 years now?
Well, it's- You can't build a bigger font for me to say thank you. I've been blessed, I've worked hard, we've done some good things, we built great relationships, but there's more work to do. The work never ends. It's just time for me to move on to the next chapter of my life. And hopefully, Leigh Davis will pick up on some of my things, but surely have the ability to shape her own path, which I think is good as well. But I think- I'm very proud of the work that we've done, and to receive 93% of the popular vote in my last contested election two years ago I think is an indication that, you know what, I did pretty well in the people's minds. And the reception I got on Veterans Day down in Sheffield was quite humbling, that even my way out the door, people were very appreciative and making nice, positive comments that, we're going to miss you. So, like I say, I think I've done good work. We've done, we’ve worked hard, we've accomplished a lot of things, but you know what? The work never gets done, and I'll be there to help out Leigh if she wants. I'm going to not put my nose in her business, but if she wants help or some guidance on anything, my phone call is just a phone call away.
At this point, is there any clarity about what your next steps might be?
No, not yet. A couple irons is in the fire, nothing definitive yet. As you know, I took on the interim town manager job, which- I offered to help out that for a couple months. Lenox is now finalizing a contract with Jay Green from Adams to be the permanent town manager, so, I was happy to help out, but this is something I definitely do not want to do. But a couple other irons in the fire, which hopefully will be shaken out the next few weeks, one of them positively.
