Kamala Harris already made history four years ago when she was elected with President Joe Biden as vice president. Now, she's hoping to keep Democrats in control of the White House in an accelerated campaign against former President Donald Trump. It's anyone's guess right now November will play out now that the Trump-Biden rematch is off the table, but one person who is watching closely is former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick — who is raising money for Harris' effort in the Bay State, where he served two terms as its first Black governor.
Do you think that President Biden made the right decision to get out of the race?
Well, right or wrong, he's made it. I mean, I completely understand how hard it must have been for him to do. So he's had the job he's wanted his whole life, and he's done it, I will say, to my thinking in a surprisingly ambitious way and in a very successful way. So God bless him. This is a man who's given decades of service to the nation, and I think explained his reasoning beautifully and his remarks from the Oval Office. And we have an opportunity to re-energize the campaign, to reach out and appeal to disaffected Democrats and and Republicans and folks of no party, and I think we've got the candidate to do just that.
How do you think the race has changed with Harris being the all but certain nominee for the Democrats now?
Well, I think it's a jolt of energy. You can see that in in the reporting of the rally she had, the way that she was so warmly and enthusiastically received when she went by the campaign headquarters to thank the folks who were who are doing the hard work every day and encouraging others to do so, and showing her acknowledging that that work and encouraging them to keep going. Just here in the Berkshires, we were sold out before the president made his announcement. We knew that the surrogate the president was sending was the vice president, but you can imagine, it's just dialed up to a fever pitch since then, and I'm really, really glad that she is keeping the commitment and coming to Pittsfield, Ian, because I think small towns like Pittsfield all over the country, they rarely get the glitter from a presidential candidate showing up, and it's really important for folks in every corner of the of the country to understand that this is a leader and this will be an administration that sees them and hears them and is not just paying attention to them at election time, but is working too, in partnership, to make lives better in between elections.
So do you know Vice President Harris? Have you talked to her? Give us a sense of the person behind the candidate.
I don't know her well. I first met her when she was in the Senate, and of course, she'd had a long public career before that. I know her biography as everyone does: a person of modest means, has had terrific educational opportunities and made the very most of them, and has tried to lead a life that is about giving, not just taking. And I love that. I love that she represents a new generation, and there's a generation or two behind her and me that she also is bringing into the campaign and into her circle. And I think that's incredibly important. I think of her as brave, meaning, I think that we really need folks in the presidency and every public office who want to do the job, not just have it. And by that, I mean willing to make the hard decisions in our time that are going to leave things better for those who come behind, and not just thinking about accumulating political capital, but spending the political capital in order to make somebody else's life and times and opportunity better. And I think of her that way, and I think the campaign has launched in such a way that she is feeling that encouragement and expectation from folks. I think it's up to us to kind of feed on that and keep it going not just until election day, but when she assumes office.
Now, Democrats have been making the case that American norms, democracy as we know it, is on the ballot this year against an emboldened former President Trump. Do you agree with that framing of this election?
Well, look, I think Donald Trump wants to lead America by fear. You know, fear of the future, fear of our surroundings, fear of the unknown or foreign, fear of him, you know, for that matter, fear of each other. And I don't think that this is the time where Democrats can or should respond with caution. We've got to respond with a willingness to step up to the big challenges we face, whether they are economic or social, domestic or foreign, with optimism, with ideas and with humility, frankly, because no one person or no one party has a corner on all the best ideas. I think that when you compare, and I will say, Ian, personally, it's been frustrating to me to some extent, that the case we've heard for the reelection of President Biden has focused almost exclusively on the hazards of reelecting Donald Trump, and I agree that there are hazards, but we have more to say than that, right? Because that job gets done on election day. And the question I think on a lot of people's minds is, and rightly should be, what happens after that?
So what's a better message for Democrats?
Well, I think it's an additional message, and I think you’re beginning to hear it from the vice president. It's about what it is we want to do with the platform the Biden administration has given us. You know, I remember having a conversation with another former governor who was in office as I was during the Great Recession, and just thinking, if we had the tools then that are available now, the CHIPS Act and the infrastructure bill and the rescue plan and the appetite for innovation and trying new things, the opportunity to collaborate across sectors, public and private and nonprofit sectors to really create economic and social opportunity in every corner of the country is unprecedented. And I think that work has to be done, and that has to be done alongside creating more just and inclusive environments around the country, and setting a different tone. So a lot of it is about holding on to opportunities that have been created by this president and this administration, so that we can build on them going forward, and not returning just to what we used to do, but actually being far more creative, including new voices and new ideas going forward. And I think Kamala Harris is exactly the person to lead us there.
So to that end, if you're Harris and her campaign, how do you run on the Biden-Harris record over four years without also reminding voters of the things they say they don't like about the administration, like higher prices at the grocery store and problems on the border and that kind of thing?
Well, first of all, I don't think you run from those things. Those are realities. I mean, inflation has eased significantly thanks to the policies of the Biden administration. And by the way, I’ll just take a moment to say, I know a lot of folks blame the Biden administration for inflation. This was a global problem, and there is no single or decision or set of decisions by the Biden administration that explains global inflation. Inflation has been better controlled by this administration than any other industrialized nation. But frankly, if you are a family paying more for groceries than you used to, you still feel it. So the stats don't really explain the case. We have to face that. We have to call it what it is and not treat it like it's something that folks oughtn't be concerned about.
What has happened also is that wages have gone up relative to inflation. They have been stagnated for a long time. That is also the wage increases associated with decisions and policy choices that the Biden administration has made. It is also true, Ian, that we have a problem at the border. We have out of date and broken immigration rules and procedures. We're not going to solve that problem by, you know, demeaning migrants and separating parents from children. We're going to solve that problem by facing that problem and collaborating on what it takes to have modernized rules. And by the way, when the Congress tried to do that in a bill that, frankly, a lot of Democrats thought was harsh, but that the president was prepared to sign, it was a bipartisan bill. Who nixed it but Donald Trump who told Republicans to vote against it. And why? Because they don't want a solution. They want the issue. And I think, you know, the American people deserve a solution. I think we'll get that in the coming in the coming administration.
Let me ask you this: do you think the situation has changed around having a female nominee since 2016, knowing that there are obvious differences between Secretary of State Clinton and Vice President Harris?
I have to say, I feel like the pundits, I'm not talking about you, Ian.
Thank you for that.
I feel like the pundit class paint was such a broad brush, and a lot of people in politics underestimate American voters. I think we can trust the American voter to make their choices not limited by considerations around gender or race. I mean, that's been my own experience. I mean, lots and lots of folks said, not only because I was Black, but because I was unknown, I think 1% name recognition when our campaign started for the first term, that it just couldn't happen in Massachusetts and wouldn't happen in Massachusetts, and yet it did, and it happened because we took the time and showed the respect of going around and introducing me and introducing a vision and listening to people and letting them teach me what was important and worthwhile, and building that into the agenda that we brought. I think when we campaign like that and when we govern like that, we win, and we deserve to win, and that's what I'm looking for in the Harris campaign. I think this candidate has that disposition, and I'm hoping her team brings that approach to the work ahead.
Do you have any interest in joining a Harris administration if she does win?
Oh, gracious, don't go there. First things first, listen, I'm doing everything I can to help Democrats up and down the ticket, and I will do everything I can to help the next Democratic administration. I think there are lots and lots of ways to serve without being in the administration itself.
OK, well, I had to try, but that's not a no, I'll note. Who do you like for her choice of a vice presidential candidate?
I like her choice to be somebody she has a real partnership with, because I think one of the things we saw in the Obama administration was that they had complementary skills, the President and the Vice President, and so they had, they had a way of leveraging the office of the president. You know what I mean? That there were certain things that Joe Biden as vice president knew how to do and do well that the president didn't, and vice versa, and they and they worked that as a team. And I think just being able to leverage the talent you have around you is enormously important, and I hope that, I hope that Vice President Harris is thinking about her range of candidates that way.
Local question for you. Do you think you will support the ballot question that would authorize the state auditor to look into the legislature's records? Most lawmakers oppose that idea.
I guess most lawmakers do oppose it. I need to look at it more closely. I think there's a genuine constitutional question. I'm not sure the constitutional question is the thing that's bothering lawmakers. But I need to look at it more closely before I give you the point of view. And I will.
Just to wrap up, because we don't see this a lot in American history. You know, people have been looking back at the LBJ speech saying he would not run for reelection, which is not a direct predecessor to what happened with Joe Biden, but in Massachusetts, most governors do not run for a third term. Did you see anything in the last few weeks with President Biden and his ultimate decision and his speech that reminded you of your own decision to leave it at two terms?
You know, I loved being governor, not every day, to be sure, but we were we had an ambitious agenda. We got a lot of good done, and we had a team. Now, you know, we not everything was just so. Nobody accomplishes everything they set out to. But we had a spirit in our team that was about doing as much good as we could for as many people as we could, for as long as we could. And after two terms, my wife Diane said it's time to come home. And she was right, you know, you there's a lot of wear and tear involved, and it was someone else's term, and I like that. I think two terms was plenty for me. There was still things we wanted to do, but it was plenty for me. It’s hard to overstate, really, just how gracious and self-aware President Biden's decision was because, as I said, he has the job he's always wanted, and he's done it very well. He hasn't gotten the recognition he deserves, but I think he will in history, and he deserves that. So passing the torch to a younger generation is something I think a lot of folks have had on their minds and hearts and he's done so in a very elegant way, and launched a potential successor, I think, very, very powerfully.
