Rep. Becca Balint, a first-term Democrat from Vermont's at-large district, spoke with WAMC's Ian Pickus Thursday.
I want to begin with the fact that the House of Representatives, as we speak, does not have a leader after Kevin McCarthy was ousted as speaker and from what I can tell from the other side of the aisle, Republicans seem to have lined up behind Steve Scalise of Louisiana. What's happening in Washington as we speak?
Well, I really appreciate the question, because I am looking constantly at my phone because we anticipate being called back to the Capitol for an official vote on the speaker's race. From everything that I've heard, Steve Scalise is the nominee though it doesn't appear he currently has the votes to win on the floor. So, this is a great step forward in terms of figuring out what comes next, but it's not clear that he would be able to get the votes that he needs on a first round of voting. So, I personally have some concerns about Steve Scalise and statements that he's made in the past about him being David Duke without the baggage. I'm not quite sure what that means, but I don't think it's good. But that's where I'm at right now.
Well, I don't expect that you would be voting for him. Is it somebody you've dealt with? Have you met him at all since you've been in Congress?
I've never met him, and so I can't speak to what it is like to work with him, and I don't serve with him on committee. So, my interactions with him have been limited. I certainly have had interactions with Jordan, the other main candidate. I serve with him on judiciary, and I can tell you, the thought of Jim Jordan, leading the house is terrifying.
So why is that? What do you mean specifically?
We know that Jordan knew a whole lot about what happened on January 6. He was in critical meetings with President Trump at that time and trying to overturn the election. He made overtures to try to get commitments about a pardon in advance. We have people who served on the January 6 committee who said that Jim Jordan was absolutely an integral part of what happened on January 6. And so the thought of him leading the House of Representatives is terrifying, because clearly, he's not someone who stands for the Constitution for the rule of law or for the democracy. And so, I was very concerned when I saw his name floated and that the former president had endorsed him. If you get an endorsement by the former president, and you're the chair of judiciary, there's probably some quid pro quo happening there in terms of what Jordan is trying to do in using the judiciary to try to protect President Trump from all of the indictments that he faces.
I think a lot of people who do know Jim Jordan, the Ohio Republican, have seen clips of him on TV from those very committee hearings. Can you give us any insight as to what it's like serving with him on the Judiciary Committee and the way he's used that perch?
Oh, he's kind of a classic bully. That's how he uses his perch. He is someone who seems pretty comfortable with showing up himself as somebody who takes an authoritarian stance in committee and how he handles himself in the committee. He has not been shy about making statements both there and on the Oversight Committee about his mission to protect President Trump at all costs.
Kevin McCarthy was ousted as speaker by the Freedom Caucus, of which Jordan is a founding member. Can you just tell us what your experience was like of deciding along with the other Democrats not to vote for McCarthy on that vote, and then watching him be removed?
Yeah, I really appreciate this question, because I know it's confusing for a lot of people. What folks need to understand is that McCarthy had broken every single promise that he had made to Democrats, to the Senate and to the White House. We had made deals with him about funding about averting a catastrophic default back in June about what our appropriations bills would look like. He basically became a completely and wholly untrustworthy partner and so, he did not Have a lot of capital to spend when it came to the Democrats. We felt like we were negotiating with someone who never ever followed through on his commitments.
The other piece is that we were never supportive of him from the beginning. It was not somebody at the beginning of this process that we felt like we could support because of those issues of trustworthiness. And the reason why we're at this moment without a speaker is because he agreed to rules in the House that were absurd, he agreed to a rule that said just one member of his conference could call for his removal. Now, that's just an absurd rule, it never should have been passed. He made deals with the most extreme members of his party in order to be speaker, and in the end they were his undoing.
Well, let me ask you, is McCarthy, even a weakened McCarthy, a better option from where you sit than either Jordan or Scalise might be?
With all due respect, I think that's the wrong question. Because what we need is any speaker who can do math, and understanding that their conference, the way that it is right now, in its chaos and dysfunction, does not have the votes to pass legislation. That we are a closely divided Congress, they have to work across the aisle, that is the reality of the situation. Now, in the hours before the vote in which Matt Gaetz and his band of fellow Republicans brought the call to oust McCarthy, Leader Jeffries, the head of my caucus, did make overtures to McCarthy saying, ‘Hey, let's have a conversation about what a power sharing agreement could look like.’ And he said, ‘Absolutely not. Not interested in a power sharing agreement, I will not ask for help from Democrats to keep my seat.’ And that's where we are right now.
(It) is that there is no way to fund government right now, there is no way to make sure that programs are paid for it unless you have a speaker who understands the math of the situation. That if you've got this hardcore group of people that do not want them to compromise with Democrats at all, you're not going to get anything done. And that's what's going to hurt regular people, and that's what I'm always focused on. It's how's it going to impact the elderly? How's it going to impact people who need food and Social Security? And so, it is a basic math problem. I was in leadership in my state senate in Vermont, you need the votes period. And it remains to be seen whether Scalise will have the awareness to pivot and we're going to continue to say we will be willing partners if you are serious about trying to get work done.
I mean (Scalise), he's got to get to 217, and wouldn't the Freedom Caucus be kind of emboldened by its success and ousting McCarthy when it became unhappy? What's to stop this cycle of speakers?
Well, that's exactly it. We are concerned that this will continue to happen. Just like you, I'm not quite sure what's around the corner. I don't know what the next few hours are going to (look like). I'm getting more used to this here, which is I when I wake up in the morning here, I realized I look at my calendar, I think I know what's going to happen. And the level of chaos that we have dealt with since the beginning of January has just been unbelievable, and so I don't know what's going to be happening in the next few hours. I'm just going to bring my most thoughtful self to whatever it is I'm asked to weigh in on.
Since the last time we've spoken, the government shutdown that was looming at the end of September was averted with the 45-day extender, which takes us into mid-November. But since then of course, the house has lost its speaker, so do you think that a shutdown is now likely in mid-November?
I don't right now, I think that what will probably happen is there's going to have to be another continuing resolution. That's what I think will happen, because there is no way that we are going to be able to pass the spending bills that we need to pass in the next few weeks, especially when as we just mentioned, we don't have a speaker currently. But I think there are enough Republicans in the conference who understand that it's not helpful to them to have a government shutdown, I think we'll see another continuing resolution first, before we get to that point.
Of course, the continuing resolution doesn't rectify the difference between the two camps about the actual 11 appropriations bills that have to get passed, so how does that work out?
That's true. And so I'm really glad you brought it up, because I just want to make it really clear to the listeners that we actually dealt with the spending caps on these appropriations bills back in June. House, Senate and the White House agreed to what those spending caps were going to look like for all of those appropriations bills. And so it's absurd now that you've got a partner of that deal, meaning that the House Republicans, who have said, ‘Well, we're not going to agree to the deal that we signed,’ that's where we're at right now. They want to open up a deal that was already signed into law. We can't pass spending bills through the House that will never get taken up by the Senate. That's the way government works.
And so the Senate has been clear, even Republicans in the Senate have been clear with McCarthy in the past that if you send us things that are extreme or backtrack on a deal that was already made, we're not going to take them up. So, it is the one half of the House that is holding all of this up, and that is the Republican conference, and so I expect that McConnell will be more outspoken in the Senate about these spending bills. And so it's not just about the dysfunction within the House GOP, but how is that impacting the work of the Senate and the White House? B ut we've already agreed to what the spending should be, we just need to pass the bill.
Do you think this is an opportunity for President Biden, who's kind of made his name by being a negotiator, (to be) one of the guys who can cut a deal across the aisle to step in?
Well, I think he absolutely did that, In June, right? He was the one that was able to bring all the parties together for the spending agreement, and I think what I want people to understand is, I didn't love everything in that agreement. There were things that were in that agreement that were compromises, and that is how you get work done in any government, not just in divided government. People have their own interests for their constituents, you have to be willing to compromise. That was a compromise in June, it was signed into law, and so he's shown that he can do that, he will do that. And I think he is going to remind all of the parties, ‘We've already done this work, let’s get the work to its conclusion here by paying for government.’
I wanted to ask you about the state of Vermont's flood recovery following not only the July storms, but then a number of heavy rains that happened since then. How do things look today?
You know Ian, it's going to be a long recovery. I am concerned about so many of my communities and especially the state capitol, Montpelier, and its sister city, Barry. Just so people understand how much damage we're talking about, in downtown Montpelier, every single small business in the downtown was devastated by the flood and in Barry, we lost 10% on housing. So we're talking about a huge number of businesses and individuals and families that need support. My main concern right now is that just like in the North Country in New York cold weather is coming. And there are people who still have not been able to do repairs on their furnaces, making sure that they are in habitable houses for the winter.
And so the recovery continues, and of course, for so many Vermonters they're concerned about ‘What is spring runoff going to look like after the snow?’ We had the situation this summer where the ground was so saturated, and then you had essentially, you've got these storms that come in that hold more moisture than they ever used to hold because of the warming air. And so we know in Vermont, this is not something that was a one-off, this is something we need to prepare for happening more frequently, and that's going to mean building more resilient systems within these towns and villages for when it does happen again. So, I wish I could tell you we've turned a corner, we haven't yet.
In New York state, places like Orange County and the representatives there were flatly furious with FEMA for rejecting elements of the aid requests. Has Vermont gotten everything it needs from the federal government?
In particular, I'm concerned about our (agriculture) sector. We had a terrible frost in the early spring that was devastating for our apple crop and our berry crop, and that was happening even before the catastrophic flooding and the designation around that emergency took a long time and coming. I think I will always be hesitant to say that we have had enough assistance from FEMA or the federal government.
Your job isn't to take your foot off the gas pedal.
That's exactly right, and there are still many people who are waiting for relief. I think the larger issue here, as I talked to my dear friend, Jill Tokuda, who represents Hawaii, is that more and more climate catastrophes are going to be happening, and they're going to be happening in every congressional district at one time or another. Unfortunately, that's where we're at right now. We got to fully fund FEMA going forward, and we have to rejigger the programs in FEMA and other agencies that help with recovery for a new normal, right? The programs were set up at a time when we weren't really dealing with climate catastrophes, we were dealing with a tornado or a hurricane (where) it blows through, you've got your damage, you can kind of assess where to go from here. That's not what we're dealing with now, and between Hawaii having horrible forced wildfires, and Vermont with this catastrophic flooding, we all need to wrap our head around the fact that the programs that exist now may not be up for the task of dealing with climate change. So I'm just concerned when I hear from my colleagues across the aisle who say they want a 30% cut to government, that would be absolutely devastating for us to prepare for more catastrophes related to the climate and to rebuild from them. We need to make sure that we are fully funding that that part of government.
Were you surprised that the mayor of Burlington, Miro Weinberger, decided not to run for another term? And what do you think of his tenure?
I was not surprised. It's because, Miro has given so, so many years to service, and he deeply loves the City of Burlington. And in talking with him, he and I have talked since he made the decision, and he said, ‘I really feel like I have given my absolute all to the to the cause, and now it's ready for somebody else to pick up the torch.’ I know that he cares deeply about Vermonters generally, and specifically about our housing crisis, and our workforce challenges, and I fully anticipate he's going to keep his foot in public policy, because that's something he cares deeply about.
Let's talk about what are just horrific scenes coming out of Israel in recent days. I understand there was a classified briefing not long ago for members of the House. Is there anything you can share with us?
Yes, so we were scheduled to have an hour-long classified briefing this morning, it actually ran to two hours. Certainly a lot of deep concerns that we have for both Israelis and the Palestinian civilians who are caught in this terrible, terrible act of terrorism. And so what I can share with you is the information that we are hearing in the news about these savage, barbaric acts on civilians are absolutely true, and that should terrify all of us. And I think what's been so hard for me as both a member of Congress but also as a parent is, we all feel the of hopelessness and helplessness around the Middle East, we see the suffering, we don't want it to continue.
And there is no justification for the for the violence that we saw this weekend, and Hamas is a terror organization. That's what they do. They terrorize Israelis, but they also terrorize Palestinians, and we've been so concerned when I say we, I mean my colleagues in Congress, we’re very concerned about making sure that there continues to be humanitarian aid going to Gaza. We want to make sure that that that food and water gets through, and we brought up the issue of making sure there are safe corridors, because you don't want a situation where Hamas continues to use Palestinian civilians as human shields and unfortunately, we've seen that. And we've seen that they are willing to hide munitions and their military operations within residential areas, and that is just absolutely devastating to the civilian population. So we are monitoring it closely, and it's unfortunately not something that we, as members of Congress, are going to be able to sort out on our own.
We need the partners in the region, and by that, I mean countries like Jordan, and Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. There are countries in that region that have an important role to play not just in getting the safe release of hostages, but also in bringing the temperature down so that we can really reduce the number of civilians, both within the Gaza Strip and in Israel, that are murdered by this horrible situation. And the other thing that I've been thinking about is that these innocent families, no matter if they are Palestinian or Israeli, they're going to be traumatized for generations to come from this violence. And it is absolutely stomach turning to think about the thousands of people who have already lost their lives, and so we have to work with partners in the area to find a path towards peace, and I haven't given up hope on a two-state solution. I think that is the only way forward.
Have you heard if any people with ties to Vermont are among the dead or the hostages in Israel?
We haven't gotten those reports, but we have gotten requests to our office to help American citizens get out of Israel right now. One thing that has been challenging for either Americans in Israel or folks who have dual citizenship is that all of the major commercial carriers, American carriers, have decided not to fly in and out of Tel Aviv right now, which has left thousands of people stranded. And I know that there have been overtures from the administration asking them to please rethink that, and the administration is working really hard to figure out other ways to get those Americans back home. But of course, we're all very concerned about the Americans who have already been identified as having been killed in the attack on Saturday and of course, our fears about those who are being held as hostages. And so the hardest part, I think, for the intelligence community right now is trying to figure out exactly who is being held in Gaza right now. It's very difficult.
Funding for Ukraine's resistance against the Russian invasion was something that fell out of the budget extender that was passed to avert the government shutdown at the end of September. President Biden will be asking Congress for supplemental funding for Israel's response. Do you see, first of all, the Ukraine funding getting back into the picture? And secondly, will Congress grant requests for more funding for Israel?
Okay, so the US Congress, despite all of the chaos around the speakership and that election, Congress is united in its support of Israel, and we will have shortly a bipartisan statement coming out about the support of Israel and making sure that Israel has the resources it needs to defend itself. Certainly, we understand that although the continuing resolution did not have Ukraine funding, we know that there is also a clear majority of Congress that supports additional funding to Ukraine. So, I fully anticipate that as soon as we have a speaker and we are doing the work of the House again, I strongly anticipate that those two things are going to be coming before us in the next few weeks.
We're about a year out from the next election just a little bit more. Are you liking your job enough to run for re-election?
This is not an official announcement for re-election, but I certainly it's been a tremendous honor for me to serve the people of Vermont. Despite all of the chaos and the head-turning headlines down here, it is the greatest honor of my life, and we'll certainly be deciding with my team over the next couple of months whether I'll be running for re-election, but I still have a lot of work to do.
Well, feel free to come on the Congressional Corner and make your announcement when it's official, OK?
I appreciate that, Ian.
