Voters in Vermont will gather Tuesday to decide on a number of local issues, from budgets to elected offices and election rules in general. Town Meeting Day includes a race for mayor in Rutland, school spending plans, and a closely-watched voting rights question in Burlington. For a preview, WAMC's Ian Pickus spoke with Middlebury College Political Science Professor Bert Johnson.
So what are some of the races or issues that you're paying particular attention to on Tuesday?
Well, I think there's a lot of Town Meeting Day this year that seems very normal. There are their municipal budgets, there are education budgets, there are bond bills. I think the places that are doing something that are sort of unusual include places like Burlington with its prepositions. Rutland, there's a mayor's race. There's the Winooski 'just cause' eviction. So they're issues here and there. But by and large, it's a fairly normal Town Meeting Day, which is saying something after a few years of COVID disruptions.
In what ways will it be different following up on the COVID years?
Well, I think we're getting back to the in-person, which is much more traditional for town meeting to have in-person meetings in towns across the state. And that's reassuring, at least to those of us who think town meeting is a great institution that needs to keep going the way it was.
Why are you a pro-Town Meeting Day traditionalist?
Well, I think there are certainly arguments against it. It takes some effort to go out during the day or an evening, and spend time deliberating with your neighbors. But I think there are rarer opportunities these days to really hash it out on these issues with people with whom we might not agree and this is one of those opportunities. So I wouldn't want to let it fall by the wayside.
Where do you go to town meeting?
Well, I don't have a town meeting where I live. However, I teach in Middlebury and so every year I go to the Middlebury town meeting, and I take my students, so I'm looking forward to introducing them to the institution.
What do they make of it?
They're very interested. We've got a few Vermonters that are familiar with the institution. But people from other states are often fascinated that people will just sit there and talk about budget items, for example. It's refreshing in a way people kind of smile and shake their heads about it the next day, when we have a discussion.
Do you worry that this institution faces extinction at some point soon?
Well, I think we are one of the last places to do something like this on a widespread basis. So yes, I think there is concern, but I hope we can keep the in person element of it. Even though people go to Australian ballots for some issues to broaden their level of participation.
We've done a number of stories at WAMC that mentioned the Australian ballot, and I always get messages saying 'what does that mean?' Can you break it down for people listening?
Australian ballot is just like a regular anonymous ballot. And the reason it has that name, Australia, is that it was pioneered in Australia over 100 years ago.
In other words, during the pandemic, especially a lot of places said, it's not safe to get everyone together in the high school gym. So we'll revert to this more common method that's seen in other states.
That's right. So it's just putting something on an Australian ballot election is just like having a regular election. Polls are open from morning 'til evening, and you can go in and vote whenever you want. Whereas the town meeting is scheduled at a certain time where everybody has to assemble.
To a certain degree Governor Phil Scott has pressed for a number of electoral reforms in Vermont and expanded the opportunities to vote for all elections. He's called for automatic mail ballots for elections and not just the midterms or the presidential years. How does that dynamic on the state level coincide with what happens on town meeting days this upcoming week?
Well, that would affect the Australian ballot measures. And it would certainly affect the cities that don't have town meetings like Burlington. But I think for a lot of town's elections are going to be less affected by changes like that.
So let me go back to something you brought up a few minutes ago. And that's the issue of 'just cause.' Eviction that is coming up again this year in some parts of the state and it comes after there was a high profile disagreement on the state-level last year. So how are Vermonters approaching this particular issue locally?
Well, it's interesting that in the 2022 campaigns, it seemed like there was a lot of agreement even across party lines. that housing was a concern. But there's disagreement about what ought to be done to alleviate what is the housing shortage in Vermont. And I think "just cause" eviction falls on advocates, they say it is helping with the housing problem. For those detractors, they'll say it hurts the housing problem. And I think Governor Phil Scott says, it hurts, 'just cause' eviction rules will hurt. And those advocates say 'just cause' eviction rules means that more people get housed. So I think it is showing how this one issue where everybody agrees it's a problem can in fact be divisive when it comes down to brass tacks.
Do state lawmakers pay attention to Town Meeting Day results locally? And does that inform the way that they approach things in Montpelier when they might be voting on a statewide issue?
Yes, I think in the legislature and Town Meeting Day there is a relationship between those two things. Usually in the legislature right around now is what's called crossover when bills that are being treated by one legislative house, go to the other house. And so there's a Town Meeting Day break where legislators go back to the towns, they often attend town meetings and that's the same time when there's kind of a fresh start on a lot of these pieces of legislation. So yes, I think it is an important way in which legislators, get back to the towns, talk to people and get feedback on what's happening in the state legislature.
So let's jump to Burlington for a moment. There's not a mayor's race this time. But what are some of the things that you're watching closely on Tuesday in Burlington?
Well, Burlington has a number of measures on the ballot that are going to be pretty interesting. One of them is the option of rank choice voting for the office of mayor. We already have rank choice voting for the council to the mayor. There's a carbon pollution impact fee on large businesses. The school budget, of course, is on there. And then there are some more controversial measures, one having to do with a progressive backed measure to establish a fairly powerful police commission that would have oversight power over the police. And then finally, a direct democracy measure that would allow voters to essentially enact ordinances by a vote rather than having those ordinances go through city council.
Do you have any predictions about how those will turn out?
Well, it seems to me that many members of the City Council are behind the ranked choice voting for mayor and the carbon pollution impacts the budget for the school, for example. I think the police commission and the direct democracy measure, I think are going to be more touch and go. There's significant opposition to those. So I think it'll be a closer call on those two.
This is the first time we've spoken since the new Congressional delegation took hold in Vermont. We've got first term at-large House member Becca Balint, a Democrat and her predecessor is now in the U.S. Senate Peter Welch. How do you see the delegation doing so far in these early months of the new term?
Well, I think so far, they're doing fine. It's early in the congressional session. The state legislature tends to move a lot more quickly than Congress does. So our new senator and new representative are probably just getting their sea legs under them in terms of their committee work. But, you know, it seems to be going fine to me so far, but we'll see in the coming months.
