It is a time of transition in New York’s lower Hudson Valley. Although New York Governor Kathy Hochul won a full term on Election Day, Democrats elsewhere suffered defeats that may have cost them control of the House of Representatives. Democrat Sean Patrick Maloney fell to Republican Assemblyman Mike Lawler in the new 17th district. And Republicans also made gains in the state Senate. Joining me now is Westchester County Executive George Latimer, who has served in both houses of the state legislature. Thank you for being with me.
What was your top line reaction to the midterm elections?
Well, I think it went better for Democrats than we would have thought because this is the midterm of a Democrat in the White House. Usually, the Republicans are the odd party in this case usually does very well. And that tends to be the national framework under which a gubernatorial race is run. And in this particular case, we had Kathy Hochul, who had served as governor now for the last year plus, but hadn't been on the ballot. So, we were in a situation where we really didn't know what to expect. And we perhaps thought that the headwinds would be uniquely strong. So, I think it turned out better than we could have expected. However, we know we did have negative elements to it. And you mentioned the loss of Sean Patrick Maloney, some other congressional House seats, were really lost. We lost some individual assembly and State Senate seats as well. So, in no way was a happy day but it wasn't the disaster that it could have been.
Why do you think those dynamics played out the way they did? In other words, locally, Democrats didn't do as well as they wanted to, nationally, arguably, they did?
Well, I would also say, you know, as a Westchester County Executive, and I've run for office here in Westchester many times, we did very well in Westchester. We had a stellar year, we carried all of our local positions, we reelected seven assembly members, three state senators, yada, yada. So, the mid level of concerns, I think, begin with the redistricting plan. Clearly the redistricting plan, done by the mapmaker out of Pittsburgh and the Republicans were very, you know, very skilled. The judge that they got the Republicans put the case before was able to throw it out, and that created a great advantage for the Republicans. Keep in mind, it's about a two to one Democratic state, but the mapmaker felt it important to create 50/50 balanced districts. So, in creating 50/50 districts, you really didn't follow the representation structure of the state. Those are the lines that we ran on, and I think disadvantage a number of people. Also, I think, what's happening in Long Island, which is not happening in Westchester, it's not happening in Ulster County. But Long Island is really in a very difficult place for Democrats right now. And some of the issues that were on the minds of voters, rightly or wrongly, a play to the Republican strength, things like crime and so forth.
Did the Democrats not run a good state campaign, in your opinion?
Well, if we won all of the positions, I mean, we swept every position that was on the ballot, U.S. Senator, Attorney General, Comptroller and Governor. And the Governor won by five points, she didn't win by 5000 votes. So, it was a victory. The problem comes in, when you look at how the state breaks down once you get below the statewide aggregate. The statewide aggregate New York City is a hugely democratic area and it provides an overwhelming majority for statewide candidates. Westchester also delivered big numbers for the Democrats. But once you get outside of Westchester, and as I said, Ulster, Albany County, a couple of other counties here in their Erie County, little bit, most of the rest of the state trended Republican and Long Island, which are two big counties in Nassau and Suffolk, they trended to Republican. So, it kept the margins in a way that really hurt us down ticket. I think that on the issue of crime, fear of crime is the issue and fear of crime is palpable. People are afraid that they're seeing a rise in crime. It's not backed up outside of New York City by the reality of it. In our county, we are safer today than we were five years ago. There's very low incidence of serious crime in Westchester County. But every night on television, you're watching some horrific incident of crime, and it creates the impression that crime is completely runaway. I mean, I was around the mid-70s, taking subways late at night as a grad student in Manhattan, and that was the days of Charles Bronson Death Wish. there really was crime and a fear of crime that matched up. That is not what we're facing today. But I think the Republicans were skillful in putting the issue in front of people in such a repeated, simple way that many voters responded to that as the primary issue and I think that That's what affected the margins that would have otherwise been more robust margins.
Well, in your view, what explains the discrepancy in the outcome between the Long Island counties and your county, which are all exposed to the New York City media coverage?
Well, there's some difference in the demographics. I mean, the people that moved to Westchester generally will come out of Manhattan or the Bronx, some sections of Brooklyn and they tend to be more of the Democratic individuals than demographically they fit into Democratic patterns. We have a larger African American population in Westchester County than they do on the Island. Many times, it's Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, individuals that move out to Nassau and Suffolk County. So that gives you a little bit different taste of it. But I would also say that we in Westchester, you know, to whatever extent, we take credit for the county government and our state legislators and so forth. We anticipated these arguments. Back in January and February, we were dealing with crime and the economic issues, the problems that we're having in the economy, which is really nationwide, not just New York, and we addressed them in certain ways. And we think that helped lessen the impact when the campaign started to focus on that. Sean Patrick Maloney lost his congressional district by 3,000 votes. He carried the Westchester portion of it by 20,000 votes. He lost it, unfortunately, because Rockland was a significant loss along with Putnam, but I think in our county we responded well. Some of it is demographic, some of it is that we address these issues earlier on and we changed the narrative, we did not let the other side drive their narrative to 100% of the attention. Given that, between the New York Post and the Fox Media and so forth, there's a lot of media attention on crime and a lot of media attention on the economy, which exacerbated natural fears that exist.
Well, do you think in the upcoming New York State Legislative Session, Democrats who are in the majority and will remain in the majority should change any of the bail reform laws or other criminal justice laws that they passed within the last couple of years?
I do think that they should look at the bail reform laws. I don't know what they will do. I served in the Senate and the Assembly and I recognize that people who live in different parts of the state, the Senate and the Assembly focus on what the people in their districts are telling them, and in some of the districts it's a different picture. But from a suburban standpoint, I think there does need to be a greater judicial discretion. And when you're sentencing, when you deal with somebody who's standing in front of you, they have committed a certain crime. If the crime is equal to the other crime and one person has money, the other one doesn't, then the bail laws, reform is appropriate. But when you have an individual standing in front of you, who has a record of dangerous behavior and repeat violent behavior, that should factor in to the judge’s decision as to whether they post bail or not. That is not the way this law has been written. I think it does need to be revisited. There is a reform that this law provides that's valid. But it also goes to the point of losing jurors judicial jurisdiction, judgment in a way that I think creates a potential negative.
Do you think your party was slow to recognize it as a political liability for Election Day?
I think that's probably true. One of the things that that I certainly do as a as an official at the county level of governance has spent a lot of time out in the communities. We have diverse communities, we're population of a million people. We're a little smaller than Nassau, Suffolk, but we're not tiny. And there's a lot of different threads of population out there. We have conservative voters as well as progressive voters. We have African Americans and Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans, so we've got all the diversity that you would find in the electorate. When I'm out of the community and I hear things unfiltered, by polling data or what aides might tell me, I get a gut feeling and that gut feeling is that issues that are on people's minds need to be addressed. And I do think that we could have perhaps addressed these things sooner and more decisively to show that no, we're not soft on crime. No, because one person said defund the police, that doesn't mean that all Democrats everywhere defund the police. And I've always been of the school of thought that when the other side pushes, you push back, you push back with force, you push back quickly, you push back at a strong affirmative voice, and you don't let somebody else take a narrative and weave it to a place that it doesn't belong. But, you know, we learn from every campaign, we adjust, and we get ready for the next cycle.
There was a time when you were supporting the Attorney General Letitia James for Governor during this several weeks where she was running for Governor before she changed her mind and ran for AG and won reelection there. What did you think of the race that Governor Hochul ran and ultimately won?
Well, let's be clear that the after Tish left the race, I was very comfortable endorsing the Governor. I did so publicly, campaigned on her behalf and went out to knock on doors and influence voters for her. And of course, Tish ran for reelection as AG and Chuck Schumer and Tom DiNapoli as well. So, I think that the campaign in general, was a well-structured campaign through the summertime. And when you are an incumbent, last year I ran for reelection in Westchester County, when you're an incumbent through the end of a primary into the summertime, the “rose garden strategy” where you’re shown doing your job is important. I think all of that was well placed. I do think that those who were advising on the campaign needed to be more sensitive in September to the shift that you have to make once people start paying closer attention, and the minute you see that crime and the economy of being hammered away at. The Roe issue is a major issue, it galvanized Democratic voters, this defensive democracy issue, it galvanizes Democratic voters, but we have to be sure that we moved on beyond that. And I think that the advisors in the campaign were slow to pick that up. Nonetheless, the governor campaigned hard. President Biden came in and you know, in general, certainly in my county, what I saw was that she did very well, she carried Westchester by 65,000 votes and that is more than she did in any other county outside of New York City. But I do think there's a lesson to be learned. And as we go forward, I don't know what the issue of the next cycle will be. It might be something completely different. But whatever it is, we have to listen, and we have to adjust and adapt to whatever is happening out in the real world.
Do you want to see Jay Jacobs stay on as the state Democratic Party chair?
I think that's a decision, first of all that Jay makes. And then I think the Governor, traditionally the position of Governor has been the influential indicator of what happens there. Whatever does come out of Jays decision to stay or to go, I really do think that the state party now has to look in the aftermath of this and develop a strategy to party build all across the board. There is a school of thought that says the responsibility of the state committee is to elect statewide officials. I would argue that that the mission of the state party goes beyond that. That you have to worry about the legislative races, and you have to worry about helping county parties build all the way up and down the line. I was at one point 20 years ago, the chair of the Westchester County Democratic Committee, and it was important for me to have support from the state party to do certain types of things. And so, I do think that that is part of what has to be focused on as we go forward as 2022 turns into 2023. The ‘23 cycle has local races. I don't know if we're going to have Assembly races because we don't know what's going to happen now with the redistricting on that score. But we're going to have races County Municipal Officials and I think the state party should be engaged in that and should come up with abilities to help make connections that will help us push a much harder effort and also to help in candidate recruitment, things of that nature.
Just to clarify for listeners, the assembly maps were deemed unconstitutionally gerrymandered or redistributed in the latest redrawing that happened this year, but there was not enough time to get new assembly maps. So, the old maps were used for the 2022 elections that we just had. And that's what the county executive meetings about next year in terms of the assembly races. Just to get back to Jay Jacobs for one second, though. I mean, do you think he did a good job in this current cycle we're talking about?
Well, I think when you talk with Jay, Jay is a very professional individual. He is a very successful man. He prioritized fundraising, which went very well for the statewide ticket this year. And he did prioritize making sure that the governor had the best opportunity to get reelected. I think it's broadening the vision of the party and it's more than just who is your party leader, but who are the other key people at the top of the pyramid in the party and you assign people a greater robust role in sort of the marketing and positioning of issues, not just as they affect the Governor or even just as they affect statewide officials, but as they affect the Democratic Party brand. The analogy here in Westchester, I meet as the County Executive, I meet with the local County Democratic Leader Suzanne Berger once a month for breakfast. I speak once a week with the Chair of the Westchester County Board of Legislators, the head of the legislature body, and as much as we can we coordinate our activities. We work with the local parties, the local elected officials, more of that needs to happen. I think it can happen. But I think that's a necessity. And so, if the vision of the state party has been elected statewide officials, make sure you hold on to the governorship, that's fine. You need to broaden that effort into the areas that I've described, if what you want is a more seamless Democratic presence and a more seamless Democratic messaging so that people understand this is what we stand for. These are the policies we advance. These are the candidates who run under that banner, and support those ideas and issues. And I think that puts us in a more competitive place as we go to the future.
A couple more things. Well, now that Governor Hochul has won a full term, what do you think her priorities should be? What are you expecting her to do with 2023 and beyond?
Well, I know from my own responsibilities here as County Executive in Westchester County, the single most important document that tells you what I stand for is the is the county budget. We've just submitted our budget to the Westchester County Board of Legislators, they're discussing it now. So, I think the first thing we look forward to after the State of the State message, which she'll give, I gather, right at the very beginning of the year will be the budget that she submits to the state legislature, and where the priority of spending is, will tell us what some of those priorities are and I think that ought to be what we react to at this stage of the game. She has gone through one budget cycle already as governor. So, she has some experience and this year because it is right after gubernatorial election, the budget has to be delivered a little later, it gets delivered in February. So that gives her and her team some time to identify what they consider the priorities. Certainly, having served in both houses of the state legislature, a lot of scrutiny is going to happen over the budget. The leaders Andrea Stewart Cousins, Carl Hastie, people I both know very well; I've got to put the time and energy and effort in and then we want to see what that response is. We're dealing right now in a dynamic economy economic situation where we have inflation today, we may have a recession tomorrow. How do we respond to that fiscal challenge? What's going to happen? What's going to happen to our revenues? Do we see later in the year some economic downturn? Or do we think we can work our way through it? That's sort of the first question because once you realize how much money you have, then you know where you can put it in terms of programs. How much will we do for education? What will we do for healthcare? How we deal with the issue of corrections and into the criminal justice area? All of those things will follow the fiscal policies that are embedded in the budget. So, I think we hear what the Governor says under state and state and then we look at what she does is terms of budget priorities, as really the real beginning of the discussion about where we go as a state for the next four years.
How well do you know Mike Lawler the new Congressman elect?
I know Mike very well. I saw him out of the campaign trail. Full disclosure, Michael was a Chief Aide to Rob Astorino, managed Rob's campaign when he ran against me. So, I know how skilled he is as a politician and as a candidate and we have a working relationship.
Do you want to say anything more there?
No, I think he's a very bright guy. We disagree on philosophy, political philosophy pretty clearly. He's going to Washington as part of what may be I guess, I don't know if it's served yet but it looks this way, a Republican House, and we'll see how they work out their priorities. I would look forward to working with him cooperatively on issues that affect the county government, the health and the federal government. We need, I suspect, on that score we will find common ground and we'll be able to work together. But what happens for the House of Representatives going forward is anybody's guess. Are we going to drop all review of what happened on January 6th and are we going to start focusing now on Hunter Biden and things of that nature? The climate in Washington now is pointing toward the next presidential race. President Trump is back in the hunt again and what happens in the Republican Party, which is, you know, not my party. But that's going to be very interesting to see. Then of course, what President Biden does. So, a lot of what happens when you deal with your congress members are going to be in light of what's happening in Washington now with the big issues relating to how the presidency is going to be competed for over the next year. And keep in mind, we have early primaries now in the state. And the political process starts very early, we're going to be in the 23-cycle right after we bring in the new year. So, there's really going to be no West rest for the weary amongst us.
To that end. Are you a Democrat who wants to see President Biden run for re election?
Look, I think it's his decision to make at this stage of the game. Most first term presidents run for the second term and if he makes that announcement, then he's the person to beat. I'm not sure I know who in the Democratic Party would want to compete against him at this stage of the game. But you know, he's halfway through the first term and there's still a lot of ground to cover. So, as tries to cover that ground, I think he's done a lot of good legislative things, to try to pull us out of the economic tailspin that we got into because of COVID, which I think we're still suffering from. And there's a worldwide reality out there, given the war in Ukraine and the economic problems that stem from that. The boycotts against Russia, the sanctions, and what that means to the world economy, and we're suffering from some of that. How he responds to that will really be the first blast. But you know, I've learned in this business over the years, not to get ahead of myself. There will be a time when candidates announced, I think President Trump announced fairly early because he's trying to clear the field. I think he feels Ron DeSantis’ presence, and therefore he felt the need to get out there early. On the normal circumstances, candidates don't announce to the presidency until much later in the year beforehand. So, I think I would normally expect to see announcements about the presidency, Summer of ‘23, Fall of ’23 and that's when things start to get serious about the electoral part of ‘24.
Do you know Trump at all, given his ties to your county?
No
Given all the different positions you've held over the years, as we're talking about all these other offices, is there one that you could see yourself running for, after being county executive someday?
Well, I have to admit, if you read my resume, my governmental resume doesn't include my corporate life. It looks like I can't hold down a job. I have held the opportunity in both Houses, the State Legislature, I was a County Legislature, I’ve chaired the County of Legislature, I’ve chaired the Party. So, I've done just about everything that I can at my level. The Congressional Races here now given you know, a person of my age and late 60’s, is not a wise move. You really want to go to Washington when you're young enough to gain seniority and have juice if you're going to go to the House of Representatives. So, I really don't see what's coming up on the horizon for me. I'm perfectly comfortable serving out the three years of my second term. I put in the legislation which was passed in the county for a two-term limit for county executives. That is the toughest term limit in the state and I'm comfortable with that. I do think there should be turnover, I think there should be a term limit on the on the New York State Government to two terms as well. But the bottom line is that I'll find something to do might be the private sector could be in the not-for-profit sector. Who knows maybe the media, Ian, you know, anything could happen.
