Just in time for Thanksgiving, this month’s episode uncovers the origins of the legendary Grape Pie of Naples, NY. A regional dessert that has spread to international fame, the Grape Pie, and the Naples Grape Festival, are Finger Lakes fall staples.
Interviewees—John French, President of the annual Naples Grape Festival and co-owner of the Arbor Hill Grapery and Winery and Trish Lambiase, president of the Naples Historical Society.
Marker of Focus—Grape Pie, Ontario County.
For More Information:
Allrecipes: Concord Grape Pie
Peter Burford, Wines of the Finger Lakes: Wines, Grapes, and Wineries of New York's Most Dynamic Wine Region, 2016.
Music: "Lemon Groves" by Bon Voyage
Devin Lander:
Welcome to A New York Minute in History I’m Devin Lander, the New York State Historian.
Lauren Roberts:
I'm Lauren Roberts, the historian for Saratoga County. This month is November, and of course, this month, although it's maybe not known for its great weather here in upstate New York, it is known for celebrating Thanksgiving, and so what better way to bring in the Thanksgiving holiday than talk about the William G Pomeroy Foundation's program, hungry for history. So hungry for history is one of their signature programs, and you can get a marker that tells the story of local food, local or regional food dishes across the US. The dish has to be created prior to 1970 and it really talks about food and the role that regional foods play in defining American culture and forging community identity. So for our episode today, we are heading out to the Finger Lakes region of New York, more specifically, the town of Naples in Ontario County, and located at 135 North Main Street, there is a sign titled grape pie. And the text reads, made with locally grown conquered grapes, popular here since circa 1959 and celebrated yearly at Naples grape festival. William G Pomeroy foundation 2024, Devin, I know that you grew up not far away from Naples, so I've got to ask, have you indulged in a grape pie?
Devin Lander:
Several, actually, yes. I grew up not too far in the town of Wayland, New York, which is in Steuben County over the border. But to get to my home from the thruway, you have to go through Naples. And we went to Naples quite often, growing up for the great festival, and, you know, for other reasons as well. And it is a quaint, small little town that still has a very active Main Street and is surrounded by vineyards of grapes. When you go there, that's what you see, grape vineyards. It's also the home of the large Hazlitt winery and many other smaller wineries as we know. The Finger Lakes region is a wine growing region and a grape growing region. So when I was growing up, grape pies were often, you know, sold in Naples at the restaurants as well as the grape Festival, which we'll talk about in a little bit. So I grew up thinking that. Great pies were something that everyone had, like an apple pie, or like a pumpkin pie or something else. It was not actually, until I went to college at SUNY Plattsburgh that I realized not everyone knew what a great pie was. They were just so synonymous with that area and with growing up specifically in the fall, when the concord grapes are ripe and ready to go. And yeah, it's a it's a regional cuisine that actually has spread beyond the region. Now there are grape pies, you know, written about in California and Canada and I'm sure elsewhere, but it's still largely identified with Naples and largely identified with the grape growing region of the Finger Lakes. So one of the fun things about researching this episode was realizing that the grape pie isn't quite as old as I thought it might be, although we really don't know how old it is. We don't know when the first grape pie was actually made. Most likely, was made in the 19th century by people living in the area who were trying to figure out ways to use grapes in different ways, beyond wine and beyond, you know, traditionally eating grapes and using them and in different ways. So we got to think about the 19th century. People were often subsistence farmers. So they would have come up with ways to use every little bit of produce that they had and but the way that the grape pie is connected to Naples really began at the local Redwood restaurant, which is still there. You can still go. They have a wonderful fish fry on Friday nights, and they still have grape pie on the menu, but really it was a marketing ploy by one of the original owners of the redwood restaurant that made Naples so synonymous with grape pies. And to learn more about that, we spoke with Trish Lambiase, the president of the Naples Historical Society.
Trish Lambiase:
First of all, grape pies have been in existence for many, many years. They were baked in in Europe, they were baked by the Romans. We have found recipes published in cookbooks from the late 1800s so fruit pies and grape pies have been around for ages. Who baked the first one? We have no idea, but we do know who started the great pie industry here in Naples, and that was Al and Frida Hodges. They owned a local restaurant called the redwood which was still in existence today. And in and Al was quite a marketer. So in 1959 he wanted to attract Rochester, New York people to the southern tier here in Naples to enjoy all the delights of the Naples Valley. And he thought, What would lure people here? And so he decided to offer something on his menu that was very unique to Naples and the area. So he asked his chef to come up with a great pie, and the chef and a waitress named Olga tried eight different recipes and finally found one made of concord grapes that they really liked. So in October of 1959 Olga baked a dozen pies and Al put them on the menu at the redwood restaurant. However, he took off all of the other pies off the menu. So the only pie offering was grape pies. Well, it was a big hit. By the end of October, slices of dozens of grape pies were being sold on the weekends, and then the people from Rochester would come down and want to buy a whole pie to take back home. There started the industry. So as as demand increased, Al went across the street and talked to a local person called Irene Bouchard, and he talked her into baking pies for himself and encouraged her to put a sign in her front yard. By 1964 she baked 700 pies selling for $1.25 each. By 1980 she was selling 300 pies a day during October, and she became. Grape pie lady here in Naples. So that was the beginning of the industry. But we've also have a lot of other bakers around Ruby freed baked grape pies here. And she developed recipes, specific recipes, not only for grape pies, but she has, we have in our archives a recipe for her grape ketchup and grape conserve and grape ice. So, she was another industry leader here for four years.
Lauren Roberts:
Devin, as you mentioned before, Naples, is pretty famous for their annual grape Festival, which is adored by locals, visited by people from all over and maybe the crown jewel of the festival itself may be the contest to decide who can make the best grape pie, not only in Naples, but the world's best grape pie. So, in order to hear more about the Naples grape festival, we spoke with the President of the festival and co-owner of the arbor Hill grapery, John French.
John French:
In 1854 Naples Valley Wine company was born, and annual fairs started in September to compliment and consume pies, puddings, jams, jellies, Different pastries. Back then, there were also contests for livestocks, livestock rather and fruits and vegetables in 1874 so you fast forward 20 years, the annual Naples fair and grape festival began at at Memorial Town Hall grounds, which is a beautiful historic building that was built in 1874 to commemorate the civil war vets. So and it's just it's absolutely stunning building that that version of the grape festival ran until World War Two, the early 1940s then it took a healthy hiatus and was brought back in 1961 Okay, so again, at this point the festival, you and I were not around on The planet for any of that stuff, but in 1961 when the when the festival was reimagined, it got 5000 visitors the first year, and by 1964 grew to attracting crowds of roughly 60,000 and had interesting, notable folks come attend, the likes of Paul Harvey. For again, anyone in their 60s may remember Paul Harvey from his radio broadcast for many decades, Emmett Kelly Jr. If the name for many people, they're going to say have no idea who that is, but he was the clown, weary Willie, anyways, but name that most everyone would know would be Robert Kennedy. So many notables have traipsed through Naples for the for the grape festival. 1971 saw the cancelation of the grape festival for about 16 years. Reason for that, and again, for me, personally, it's a little bit I was not in Naples in that timeframe, and so was oblivious to any of this. But in 1971 it was canceled because the crowds had become unruly. Okay, so the early 70s were rather tumultuous times, and it led to the hiatus of the grape festival. It came back in 1988 and became a two day event, which is still today. In 1989 the focus at that point became arts and crafts, live music, and, of course, the pie contest. And by 1990 it had gained enough traction that it was raising funds. And that was the beginning of when the proceeds from the grape festival started to be shared with the Naples Historical Society and the Naples New York Rotary Club. The Naples grape festival is actually trademarked, and rotary became the sole owner of it. You will for insurance purposes, back in 2008 and it's had a strong run ever since. Of course, it did take a pause in 2020 for the covid pandemic. But the the cornerstones of the the Naples grape festival include, naturally the arts and crafts, the great pie contest, the brand more craft beverage garden, where wineries, distilleries, cideries and micro breweries all sample their wares. And there's T-shirts, there's hats, there's sweatshirts, so there's apparel galore, so you can go home like you just visited Disney, and we have upwards of 30 pies entered every year for the grape pie contest at the grape festival. And you know, there are rules for this. There are definitely rules. One of the rules that's kind of interesting is that the pie must be baked in a disposable pan, and the pie can have no the pie can have no identifying factors, so that anyone judging the pies knows who the baker may have been. It has to be made 100% with grapes. The only anomaly there or exception is that thickeners and spices may be added so pectin and whatever other spices people might want to add. Besides the bragging rights that you baked the best pie for 2025 or whatever the year may be, you win a whopping $50 and an engraved festival trivet.
Devin Lander:
So I remember having grape pies as a kid growing up how delicious they were, eating them with Cool Whip. For those out there who know what cool whip is, or with vanilla ice cream, there you really should have some sort of creamy side. It just sets off the little tanginess of the grapes. So I remember enjoying those, those pies my grandmother would make. I remember helping squeeze the grapes, but not really understanding the magic behind how the pie actually comes together.
Lauren Roberts:
Yeah, I would, I would say, Devin that there is a big difference between enjoying the grape pie and actually trying to make one. You mentioned before you thought everyone had had a grape pie, but myself, growing up in the southern Adirondacks in Fulton, County of New York, I had never had a grape pie, nor heard of a grape pie. So in in preparation for this episode, I thought, well, maybe I'll make a grape pie. Haha, so Devin, you're kind enough to share a recipe with me that your mom and grandmother had. So for other pie makers out there who are used to making pies, and I've made quite a few different varieties of pies, although this pie is a little bit different. So let me read you the recipe conquered grape pie slip skins from one and a half pounds or four cups of concord grapes. Set skins aside, bring pulp to a boil, reduce heat, simmer uncovered for three minutes, sieve to remove seeds. Then you add the skins back in, mix one cup sugar, half cup flour and a quarter teaspoon salt, add a tablespoon of lemon juice, two tablespoons butter melted and grape mixture pour into a nine inch unbaked pastry shell. Bake at 400 degrees for 25 minutes, and then it goes on just to talk about, you know, making a crumble topping. So let me just pause at slip skins from one and a half pounds of grapes, not, not a quick recipe here. So the only time I've ever taken skins off grapes was when my kids were little for Halloween. And when you they stuck their hands in the, you know, the skin grapes that are supposed to feel like eyeballs. And at that time, I complained about it. So when I went to make the pie, which I did make a version of the pie, I didn't realize that this, this particular recipe for Concord grape pies, the real version would be about a three hour process to do it correctly. So So while I didn't have. That time to make this a Concord grape pie. I did make a cheater version, which I brought into the studio for us to try and it's more of a grape juice pie. And it's difficult here to find concord grapes at the tail end of November in upstate New York. So I'll definitely have to visit the Naples grape festival earlier next year in the fall, so I can get some actual concord grapes and make the pie the right way, although I may need to enlist some help in squeezing the individual grapes to get that done the right way, and then, you know, keeping the skins to add them back in so, so it smelled good while I was making it, and hopefully it will, you know, it'll be okay. I'm sure it's not what you're used to, you know, being a Finger Lakes Nate, you know, native. But we'll see.
Devin Lander:
I'm sure it's delicious. And I had no idea that the pies took that long, because I never did all of the pie making, but it's certainly worth it. And I will say about the grape festival, it attracts people from all around the region and beyond, and it's really a true community festival. The entire town, turns out for it, the entire town takes part in it. It's not just at the fair site or the festival site. Community members set up displays and have vendors in their front yards. Naples is extremely walkable, so you can, you can walk from one to the other very easily. And there's live music and and other types of vendors as well. It's not just grape pies. There's many other things there, but it is. It is an opportunity to really take part in a regional and local festival that you know has its origins going back quite a long ways. It was dormant for a while, but I remember when it came back in 1988 and was immediately a success, and has grown since then.
So we just sampled Lauren's grape pie. And although it was not the exact type of recipe, I will say it was delicious. As a grape pie connoisseur that I am, I would say it tasted very similar to the ones I remember having. It was delicious and it included whipped cream. So thank you very much, Lauren. It was a it's a wonderful grape pie example. And for anyone who is interested, you can check out the website for this episode. We will be posting at least one recipe, and then maybe you can travel to Naples next fall and enjoy the Naples grape festival and have one that's made in Naples. So the Naples grape festival highlights, obviously grape pies, but also other grape products, including grape ketchup, which I've never actually had, but would like to try. But really, what the Finger Lakes is known for, for most people, is wine. And when I was growing up, Naples main winery was the Widmer winery for years and years before it became Hazlitt and New York at that time, in the 1980s 70s, was known primarily for very sweet wines. New York wines were notorious in some ways as being sweet. There still are sweet wines, but New York's wine growers have really become much more dynamic. New York's wines and the Finger Lakes specifically, are now winning awards at wine tasting contests internationally, and this is something that John French was able to illuminate us a little bit more about.
John French:
The Finger Lakes region for decades and decades, was known as the land of sweet, fruity wines, or Riesling country. And when I first got into this line of work, which it doesn't work if you enjoy what you do, when I first got into this, New York State wines were not highly regarded relevant to their reds, I would often have people say, Oh, I only drink California reds. Congratulations. I'm happy for you. You can still try this, if you like. And what's unique about our region is we are very close to Cornell University's viticulture Experimental Station, and the folks there have been doing great work with regards to wineries, vineyard practices. And it's a fascinating industry, because wineries, very much like micro breweries and cideries and distilleries, they all work together as a brotherhood. Unlike so many other industries where you're looking to carve out market share and you would never dream of helping your competitor, right? It's more of a brotherhood. It's a, it's a, it's a delightful industry in which to work. And through that and the fact that when the craft winery act happened 50 plus years ago, which allowed us to cast off an old prohibition era statute where wineries could only sell to distributors, with the Kraft wine act, we could sell direct to consumer. So New York State went from having 19 wineries to over 400 today in the last 50 years. So through that, you've got individuals now making wine, and nobody wants to be the 400 and third ranked wine out of all of that right stone. So it's like tennis or ping pong or whatever your game of choice is. If you're playing against someone better than you, it tends to elevate your game, and the fact that wineries will collaborate with each other help each other out, has allowed the quality of the wines in the Finger Lakes region to garner a lot of positive press, and here, our top two selling wines are reds, and that's kind of cool, considering we for again, older folks there. We're no longer just Riesling country or the land of sweet, fruity wines, categorically, across the Finger Lakes, many, many wineries do a wonderful jobs with reds, dry whites, sweeter whites, whatever the case.
Lauren Roberts:
I think it's really inventive of this community to take something like grapes, which they they can grow and are really great in in wine, and then figure out other ways that they can take this product and and really, you know, make it their own, including grape pies. But you also mentioned, they have other things. They make jams and jellies. I saw great bread, like all different ways that they can take, you know, this regional specialty and turn it into something that people would want from all over, not just New York, but But even the US. And, you know, John French told us about all of the different kinds of gift type items that they sell, you know, that they ship to sell in all sorts of different like Gift Shop stores and things like that. So, you know, food in particular, I think, has a way of connecting us, because we all have to eat to survive, and most of us enjoy eating. So in order to be able to connect to different communities, right, to try something, try a dish that other communities have, that we maybe haven't experienced, or to hand a recipe down, from grandparent to parent to child, you know, it helps us remember the human story, all those things that we have in common, things that we celebrate, either, you know, maybe through our heritage or ethnicity. So so it's great when a community and a whole community can come together, not only celebrate what they like, but also make it, you know, part of tourism and economic development, where they can actually see a return on investment by having things like the grape festival.
Devin Lander:
Thanks for listening to a New York minute in history. This podcast is a production of WAMC, northeast Public Radio and the New York State Museum, with support from the William G Pomeroy foundation. Our producer is Aaron Shallow-Lavine.
Lauren Roberts:
A big thanks to all our guests for taking part. If you enjoyed this month's episode, make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and share on social media to learn more about our guests and the show. Check us out at WAMC.org We're also on x and Instagram at NY History Minute.
