Lucas Willard: WAMC Berkshire Bureau Chief and hardcore Deadhead Josh Landes joins us now to discuss Weir's passing. Hi Josh.
Josh Landes: Hello Lucas.
So, I wanted to talk to you about this because I know that you're a Deadhead, and I know that there was a lot of tribute over the weekend- I want to know, first of all, if you paid any tribute to Bob Weir in your own way.
That's a wonderful question. Lucas, and I want to first off say that what Bobby Weir taught us in his life - and Lord knows what he'll do in his death - he taught us to be unafraid, to be adventurous, to ask questions, to not be worried about making mistakes, to pick ourselves up when we fell down, and to keep moving forward. So you know, as much as it was heartbreaking to imagine a world without Bobby Weir in his corporeal form, in many ways, this really frees up his spirit and his legacy to really become infinite, which is, I think, what he would have wanted. So this weekend, I bathed in Bobby. I called friends, we shared memories of seeing him over the years, I listened to hours and hours of his wonderful music, from the earliest days of the Grateful Dead to his his late career renaissance in both Dead and Company and Bobby Weir and Wolf Bros, and I thought back about all these amazing moments in this adventure that I got to hop on on the bus for, from seeing him perform at the Kennedy Center with the National Symphony Orchestra, to going out to San Francisco to seeing him perform in his beloved hometown at the climax of Dead and Company's final tour in 2023. I went back to my memories of seeing him and the band at Cornell University in May 2023, performing in the iconic Barton Hall like the band did several times before- a couple of those of some note. I just really celebrated everything that Bobby represented to me, which was, again, being unafraid, going on an adventure, and being willing to throw myself into something and see where it took me. Those are the things that I'm holding on to in the wake of his passing.
I want to ask what you thought of Bob Weir's stage presence during all of these performances that you just mentioned. I know you've traveled around being WAMC sort of resident jam band guy, but what can you tell me about Bob Weir's stage presence, his his ability to communicate while he is performing? And this is something that he did, as I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation here, for practically his entire life.
Yeah, I mean, there are many folk legends about Bobby's total amount of time spent on stage. There are some who say that he maybe performed more than anyone else alive, playing upwards of 4,500-plus shows over the course of his long career. The thing with the Grateful Dead, and obviously, with any band that generates such a passionate following and a hardcore fan base, there's a temptation to elevate people to the status of deity, right? So with characters like the great Jerry Garcia, who, in many ways, suffered greatly because people saw him as this godly figure because of his abilities to perform and play music and channel the human experience; the sort of more cerebral and sort of heady world of Phil Lesh- Some of these guys sort of seemed kind of big and unapproachable, and maybe elevated beyond their simple human condition. Bobby Weir was the human pipeline to all of this cosmic music. One of the most iconic moments in Dead history, and I've got a hat that alludes to this, and folks who have either seen me, and certainly my co-workers have seen me wear it at the WAMC newsroom- It says, Dark Star into El Paso, into Dark Star. And that really sums up the Grateful Dead in a nutshell. You have Dark Star, this vast, improvisational springboard deep into the cosmos, and then you have El Paso, a cowboy song by Marty Robbins that Bobby Weir made his own over many years playing in the Dead and beyond. And that's the beauty of the band, right? You have one part of them going into the stratosphere of the farthest possible expression of deconstructing and reconstructing identity and music, and then you have a guy who wants to be a cowboy, and that's just as beautiful and cosmic and wonderful, and that's what Bobby was. I think he was a bridge between the highest, most heady aspirations of the Grateful Dead, and that very core American experience of wanting to be a troubadour with an acoustic guitar, riding your horse out on the range, singing sad songs, drinking coffee by the fire. Bobby was the bridge between those different elements, and he was that presence that allowed many people, I think, to feel sort of really seen and felt on stage. He was a guy willing to make mistakes. He laughed at himself. Lord knows, he flubbed a lyric or two or three or four along the way, and that's what made him such an invaluable part of both the Grateful Dead and such an invaluable guardian of the American song experience.
Now, Josh, before we go on a little further about what you think about Bob Weir, I also know that you've spent some time over the last few years, communicating with members of Dead and Company and the Grateful Dead before that. But what did Bob's bandmates say about him and your conversations with him over the last few years?
One of the most beautiful moments I can think of, I was talking to Oteil Burbridge, the bassist of Dead and Company, which was the Grateful Dead offshoot from 2015 until, sadly, last August, and I asked Oteil about what it was like on stage communicating with the guys in the band, and and here's what he had to say:
"I can distill it all down to, if it feels good- Like, when I look, and I'm smiling and John [Mayer]’s smiling and [keyboardist Jeff] Chimenti’s smiling and [drummer] Bill [Kreutzmann]’s smiling and [drummer] Mickey [Hart]’s smiling and Bob is smiling, I'm like, well, this must be right. [laughs] Like, because it's subjective. Who could say, does it taste good or does it not taste good? To one person, it tastes good. To another, it doesn't. When everybody in the band is smiling, and then the crew and the crowd, I'm like, hey, we're doing it right."
I also had the great privilege of speaking with the great Mickey Hart, who is now only one of two surviving members of the core Grateful Dead band alongside fellow drummer Billy Kreutzmann. And here's what he had to say about watching Bobby step up into this role where- You know, for people in my generation - our generation, Lucas - I was five when Jerry Garcia passed away. I never knew him and had that personal relationship with him as the figurehead at the front of the Dead world. Certainly, over the course of Dead and Company's career, taking that music back into these massive stadium shows, these massive experiences of group communion over the music of the Dead, Weir really stepped up into that role. And here's what Mickey Hart had to say about about watching Bob take that step from being Jerry's goofy sideman and a little brother into this role leading the band alongside singer and guitarist John Mayer:
"Bob is in shape. He's good, he's healthy, head's in a good space, works out every day, seemingly living a happy life. He loves to play. He's progressing. He's not the guy that he was seven years ago. He's feeling more comfortable on the stage, and he's feeling John now more, and John's feeling him more. It takes a long time to play out of your head in some other space. So, Bob and John have a conversation now that is really more powerful than it was seven years ago, because John's learning the songs really well, and Bob is loosening up and playing with John just like Bob played with Jerry. It's a different relationship, but it's a relationship."
As I had mentioned earlier, Bob Weir had battled cancer, and his death has been attributed to underlying lung conditions. But what can you tell me about Bob's outlook on death at the end of his life, after a career really spent carrying on a mission for decades of performing and storytelling and entertaining thousands, millions of people, really?
It's interesting, because Bob was often asked about his thoughts on death, because so much of the Grateful Dead experience was unfortunately mourning- Mourning the loss of so many of his brothers and bandmates over the years. Back in 2023, Weir went on the aforementioned Oteil Burbridge's podcast Comes A Time, and he actually answered a question about what it was like grieving Jerry Garcia, and in his answer, I think he gave one of the most beautiful, incredible perspectives on life and death and whatever comes next that I've ever heard- And certainly when we think about what it means to mourn and grieve, I like Bobby's perspective on death more than just about anything else I've ever heard:
"I don't tend to think of death as as particularly final. And if I'm going to be sad, that's my business, because really, death is a liberation. My view of things is that death is the last and best reward for a life well lived, because death is where the adventure starts, as far as I can see. [We've] just been sort of messing around in this existence, and you get to the more to the essence of it when you leave behind your mortal trappings. And so given all that, I tend to celebrate death for my loved ones, particularly, as a liberation. And so I look forward to dying one of these days. I'm going to get around to it."
Weir is survived by his wife, Natascha, and his daughters Monet and Chloe. He was beloved to millions. I saw him perform dozens of times, and I'm going to miss him every day, but I know he's going to be close at hand.
WAMC Berkshire Bureau Chief and resident Deadhead Josh Landes. Thank you, Josh.
Thank you, Lucas.
