More than four decades after its underdog ascent to the Best Picture Academy Award, the “Rocky” franchise continues to inspire, with six “Rocky” films and two “Creed” spinoffs so far. If you continue to find inspiration in the sleek Soviet training sequence of “Rocky IV,” it’s easy to forget how relatively small the first film was.
In the new documentary short “40 Years of Rocky: The Birth of a Classic,” director Derek Wayne Johnson assembles archival footage of the making of the 1976 original. Of course, it’s narrated by Sylvester Stallone.
I never knew about this footage that was shot at the time that the film was made. Where did all this footage come from?
It came from, mainly from John Avildsen, the film's director, and also some of it came from Lloyd Kaufman at Troma Entertainment. He was the production manager on Rocky. But 99% of it came from John, because John just had this- I don't know, he was kind of ahead of his time, in a sense. He always had a camera in his hand, even when, you know, they weren't filming, he was filming. So he just compiled hours and hours and hours of behind the scenes footage, and I'm so glad that he did.
It's so funny to think that all of that footage existed because it's fair to say, hopes weren't very high for this movie, let alone the franchise, it would become.
Absolutely. And I think that's a testament to John. You know, something a lot of people don't know. His father was making home movies on 35 millimeter back in the '20s. And it just was in John's blood to always be filming until the day he died, he was filming everything on a, on an iPhone. So he was just a consummate filmmaker even when he wasn't getting paid to do so.
You've done projects on him before. How did he come to be associated with this movie?
John Avildsen, he had directed the, the highest grossing independent film of 1970 called "Joe" starring Peter Boyle and Susan Sarandon. Well, that got him hooked up with Jack Lemmon to do a film called "Save The tiger". Well, "Save the Tiger" was Jack Lemmon's only Best Actor Oscar. So now all of a sudden John Avildsen's a hot director in Hollywood, but he was known for doing low budget films and making it look bigger than what it was. So when he got the script for Rocky, at first, he was like, I don't want to do a boxing movie. But when he read it, he said that five pages in, he was so charmed that this character Rocky was talking to two turtles. He jumped on board, and the rest is history.
A few things about the film that that standout. One is that Stallone demanded that he be able to play the title role because he wrote the story and it was basically his baby. Was that a hard fight to get him actually in the picture?
Yeah. He- With his own shrewd business sense, they really pushed to get this made, but a lot of credit has to go to Robert Chartoff and Irwin Winkler, the producers. They really believed in the script, and they believed in Sly. And instead of getting a big budget to shoot it, United Artists said, "Okay, fine. We like the script. We'll give you a million dollars." Well, they had no idea it was going to go on to make $225 million worldwide.
One thing your film focuses on is some of the filmmaking techniques that were at the time revolutionary. Can you talk a bit about how they actually went about making the film?
Well, I think the one thing that stands out the most, as far as the revolutionary technology at the time, is the Steadicam that the great Garrett Brown invented- Who is also from Philadelphia, believe it or not, where the film takes place. So the Steadicam just revolutionized the way we look at cinema. And it's probably used on everything that's shot today. So that was a huge thing. And to John Avildsen's credit, he had seen, I think, some test footage that Garrett Brown had shot, and he invited him over to kind of show him the rig or whatever, and John loved it. And he knew that that's the only way he could get that shot up those stairs. So it became the most iconic shot in movie history perhaps. So that's the main thing, but also, a lot of credit to John Avildsen for the editing, which the editing won an Oscar. Um, he, he didn't win the Oscar for editing, he went for directing. But, you know, the, the training montage, the fight montage, were quite revolutionary and pretty much the first of its kind.
Stallone also makes the point that, this for a boxing movie was, was filmed in a different way. They did a lot of rehearsal, in terms of mapping out the choreography of the boxing match between Creed and Rocky. And then just the way that they went about capturing that, apparently that was sort of new as well. Right?
Absolutely. And you'll learn in the documentary, Sly talks about that they had a fight choreographer come on board, but "He was a little too old school," According to Sly. So I guess things weren't working out the way that they planned. So that particular choreographer quit. Well Avildsen and Sly and Carl- And I'm sure there are others as well. You know, kind of got together and made the fight scene what it is today and how we see it. And you know a lot of people always say, "Gosh," you know, "They're- These boxers, it's so fake, they don't have any defensive skills. You know?" Sly just gets beat up, or Rocky just gets beat up, but hey, it's a movie. I mean, if it if they did it too realistic, it might have been a bore. So they, they did take creative license with how to shoot a boxing scene and I think it works.
Let's talk about Stallone a little bit. I'm really fascinated by his relationship with his character. In your movie, he does talk about Rocky, you know, as being a different guy, but a lot of people will just equate the two. You know, he's been playing him on and off, you know, since the 70s at this point. He was nominated for an acting Oscar a few years ago for his performance as Rocky and Creed. What was it like hearing him and watching him look back at this old footage of a character that's been such a huge part of his life?
Well as, as Sly will tell you Rocky is his best friend, and Rocky's been good to him for over 40 years. So, you know, when I was at his house- As he narrated it at his house, and we put it up on the big screen, and we're just hanging out and just watching him and listening to him do it. He was so thrilled. I remember when we were done, we were just all so excited and giving high fives and, and an interesting thing about that is as, as I'm listening to him narrate- Which he did in one take, by the way. It wasn't scripted, and it comes off in the documentary. You can tell it wasn't scripted, because I asked him, I said, "Would you like me to script it out?" And he said, "No, no, I've got this. I've got this". So I remember I gave him a set of notes. I still to this day, don't know if he looked over those notes the night before, but on the day he hit every note on the head, one take. And it was just marvelous. It was, it was just beautiful to see him. Open up those home movies and talk about this character in this film once again. It was, it was a really magical moment and I think it's captured in the documentary.
Why do you think that this character and this franchise has such staying power?
Well, everyone roots for the underdog. I mean, and that's- And this is the ultimate underdog film. And I think that Rocky was such an original character that so many people could relate to, that- I mean, if you look at Rambo, Rambo, you could- The Vietnam Veterans could relate to the, to Rambo in Rambo I, you know, in First Blood, then he kind of became a cartoon character and a superhero. Well, Rocky sort of became a superhero cartoon character in the sequels, but that original, that's the one that everybody can relate to because everyone has ups and downs in life. One person can create something that so many people, I mean millions and millions and millions absolutely adore. It's fascinating to me.
Do you have a favorite film and the entire saga?
Oh, definitely Rocky I. It's a, it's just a perfect movie. I mean, it's so cinematic and I love it. But, you know, I love the sequels as well. But Rocky I, hands down.
Where do you think the franchise is going? Sly is obviously, you know, he's not getting any younger and now we've had two Creed movies.
Uh, you know, I don't know. I think it's just the time for Creed. I think, you know, there will be a Creed III, and I don't know if there will be any more Rocky movies. But in a way Rocky is kind of like James Bond and Batman. I mean, it's just- He's not going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think.
