For years, New York State has been incentivizing consolidation efforts, but few have succeeded. Even though town supervisor and former New Paltz Mayor, Tim Rogers, is an avid supporter of village dissolution, he's prepared for whatever the outcome is on November 3rd.
Read the full transcript below:
Annie Bennett: This is Northeast Notebook from WAMC. I'm Annie Bennett.
Mary Ann Tozzi: We're not afraid. We're not uninformed. This is why we're saying no.
Annie Bennett: If you tell somebody that you're going to New Paltz, you may have to clarify. In the Hudson Valley, New Paltz is a prominent town but it's also the name of a village.
Sean Sullivan: And is there friction? Yeah. Do you have to figure things out? Yeah. You have to do the work. Okay? But we're running out of people!
Annie Bennett: On this episode, we'll follow one community's efforts in what can be a very messy process: town/village consolidation.
Tim Rogers: Change is emotional and this is an example.
Annie Bennett: Residents of both the town and the village of New Paltz will vote on November 3rd and decide whether to dissolve the village. So, follow me here: you could be a student at SUNY New Paltz, living in the village of New Paltz, within the town of New Paltz, in the state of New York. Ooph. Since 1949, there have been many attempts to dissolve the Village and merge it with the town, and this process is called consolidation.
Alexandria Wojcik: Consolidation would take away the protective layer, you know, an extra check and balance for those populations because that's who the Village has always represented, right? The Village is… it's like umbrellas, right? It's the smallest umbrella government, and then the town is around us, then we've got county and then the state and all that jazz.
Annie Bennett: That's the Mayor of New Paltz Village, Alexandria Wojcik. She's generally against consolidation. She spoke with WAMC's Lower Hudson Valley Bureau Chief, Elias Guerra, while greeting attendees at a town hall back on October 22nd, which is two days before early voting began.
Alexandria Wojcik: Well, I think we're doing a good job with making sure there's a lot of engagement.
Annie Bennett: Engagement may be a slight understatement. The town hall got... intense.
Sounds from the town hall: "Okay." - "But that's not true; no, no, no, no- that's not how it works." - "But you-" - "So, the union, union contract is-" - "Kim, were you done?"
Annie Bennett: Elias said dissecting this topic as a resident or as a journalist is tough because it's heavy on policy and details.
Elias Guerra: What you hear from people who are against consolidation is at least a little bit different from what people who are for consolidation will say.
Annie Bennett: In fact, New Paltz Town Supervisor, Tim Rogers, faced scrutiny from local residents while trying to explain the minutiae of consolidation at the October 22nd town hall meeting.
Tim Rogers: People only begin paying attention as you get closer to the vote, which is, you know, natural and expected, and it...and it's okay. The process has not been rushed and we've been hyper-communicative and answered so many questions, including that gentleman who spoke for ten minutes about not getting his questions answered.
Valentine Saarmaa: He just like nodded his head and went like-- and, and...
Annie Bennett: That's Valentine Saarmaa, a lifelong resident of the area.
Valentine Saarmaa: He was just very demeaning.
Unidentified speaker: ...While people were talking.
Valentine Saarmaa: He was very demeaning.
Unidentified speaker: Like he was bored.
Valentine Saarmaa: He was very demeaning.
Unidentified speaker: He was like sitting like this, I mean-
Valentine Saarmaa: And I said to him…
Unidentified speaker: So unprofessional...
Valentine Saarmaa: "You know what, Tim? This is why people don't like you, because you're so rude to people."
Tim Rogers: Yeah. I'm not great at retail politics. You know, I will never be a successful politician. Um, I just try to be a wonky municipal official who tries to make prudent decisions on behalf of taxpayers.
Annie Bennett: The proposal would have the former Village of New Paltz become the Hamlet of New Paltz, with its own water, sewer, and fire managed by the town. Existing joint services, like police, would remain the same.
Elias Guerra: I would say I got a lot of straight answers from the supervisor. But then speaking with the village mayor, she was basically saying there are a lot of questions still remaining. And it seemed like, at the town hall, there were still folks that had a lot of questions.
Annie Bennett: So, I brought in an expert.
Chris Koetzle: Chris Koetzle, the Executive Director of the New York State Association of Towns.
Annie Bennett: Dissolving one government and absorbing existing services into another can get messy. And Chris says that there are both barriers and benefits that municipalities must consider. But, the most universal one is taxes.
Chris Koetzle: The interesting thing is that a village resident is also a town resident because the village is inside the town.
Annie to Chris: Right.
Chris Koetzle: So, they're already paying- they pay their taxes to the town for town services and the villages for village services. So, there would be some potential benefits on efficiencies, um, bringing services together.
Annie to Chris: So, what are some of the barriers then to why more people aren't doing this?
Chris Koetzle: The barriers are huge, unfortunately.
Annie to Chris: Yeah.
Chris Koetzle: And, you know, you might have two police forces, very often. How do you merge that? Or, villages in this state usually have a paid fire department. Towns don't have paid fire departments. So, the other issue is very often these villages might be in fiscal distress, high debt. They're having a hard time delivering the services over a smaller group of folks. So, what happens then? Does the town absorb all this financial, uh, trouble? Do they take on all the debt? And now, do all these folks in the town, who didn't have anything to do with voting for that, have to pay that? And I think lastly, which is really a big issue is, labor. Labor is generally against consolidation because they feel as though there's gonna be jobs lost, and that's certainly not what they're interested in. But it's also going to be: how do you merge different contracts? And so that's usually a big barrier, too.
Annie Bennett: During the town meeting, officials said that the plan does not include any job losses. So, how are New Paltz residents making sense of all of this? Well, Mary Ann Tozzi, a former small business owner, tells me:
Mary Ann Tozzi: I live in the town. It has completely different needs than what are in the village. So, a couple of years ago we had a garbage thing where everybody had to use the same garbage hauler. Now to me, that makes sense in the Village. It's historic. There's small, tight, one-way streets. I live on Route 32.
Annie Bennett: She has lived around New Paltz her entire life.
Mary Ann Tozzi: Two weeks old - I was two weeks old when we moved here. "If you say no, it's 'cause you're afraid." If you say no, it's 'cause you're uninformed." And I don't think that that's the case. I think this is them not wanting to hear what people are saying why their reasons for no. Like, we told you why. We're not afraid. We're not uninformed. This is why we're saying no.
Annie Bennett: But not everyone is against consolidating. Sean Sullivan testified at the town hall.
Sean Sullivan: And is there friction? Yeah. Do you have to figure things out? Yeah. You have to do the work. Okay? But we're running out of people!
Annie Bennett: But Elias and Mary Ann say divisions within New Paltz are on full display in the run-up to election day.
Elias Guerra: If you drive around the town, there are lots of signs saying, you know, "Vote no on consolidation." I didn't really see that kind of signage for voting yes on consolidation.
Mary Ann Tozzi: This town is very polarizing about most things. Like, even the most mundane things, they make you pick a side.
Annie Bennett: Chris Koetzle, the Executive Director of the New York State Association of Towns, isn't surprised about the struggles facing the referendum. In most cases, he says, dissolutions do not move forward.
Annie to Chris: Are there any success stories that you know about?
Chris Koetzle: Not offhand. Not offhand.
Annie to Chris: (Laughs) But there's lots of failure stories that you know about?
Chris Koetzle: Uh, it fails a lot. It's more of a community issue from the perspective that village residents feel very connected to their village... it’s the fabric of where they grew up.
Annie to Chris: Mm.
Chris Koetzle: It's a different feel there often.
Annie to Chris: Like an identity thing?
Chris Koetzle: It's an identity thing.
Annie to Chris: That makes sense.
Chris Koetzle: And I think a lot of folks don't want to give up that identity.
Annie Bennett: For years, New York State has been incentivizing consolidation efforts. But, few of these attempts have actually succeeded. In 2012, the Village of Seneca Falls dissolved into the Town of Seneca Falls, and that was the largest village dissolution in New York State history. And even though town supervisor and former New Paltz Mayor, Tim Rogers, is an avid supporter of village dissolution, he's prepared for whatever the outcome is on November 3rd.
Tim Rogers: Hey, the voters might vote it down, and I respect democracy, and if that's where they land, that's where they land. Change is emotional, and this is an example that, you know, creates a lot of emotion. I think what's interesting is I've heard different folks making public comments saying like, "Protect our village, save our village." And I was like, I don't think they understand that the goal is to do exactly that.
Annie Bennett: Northeast Notebook is a production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio. Our Executive Producer is Lucas Willard and our Editor is Diane DeVore. Original Music by Eduardo Rivera. Consider subscribing to Northeast Notebook wherever you get your podcasts. If you did enjoy the show, or, hey, even if you didn't, we'd love for you to rate and review. It's just one small way that you can support public radio. This episode was hosted and produced by me, Annie Bennett. Thank you for listening.
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