On Tuesday night, incumbent Massachusetts U.S. Sen., Ed Markey, will face his Republican challenger, John Deaton, in a debate.
Berkshire Bureau Chief joined WAMC's Sam Dingman on Northeast Notebook to preview the debate.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Editor's note: this conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.
Dingman: Let's talk a little bit about the stakes here. What would you say Markey is up against in this debate?
Landes: A Republican running for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts, especially at this moment in history is facing a major uphill battle. Democrats have controlled well at this point. Democrats control all wings of government. We saw Ed Markey cruise through a primary challenge against Seth Moulton. He's coming into this contest with a lot of wind at his back. Even if some have suggested that his age might mean that win would topple him over. He has proved resilient. So, John Deaton, he's a relatively recent transplant to Massachusetts. I don't think he has the same name recognition of Markey, who at this point has been in public office for 50 odd years. It's sort of Markey's to lose here in every way.
Dingman: Well, with that in mind, what have been the big issues that these two candidates have been confronting each other about, and do any of those stand out to you? Oftentimes in Senate campaigns, we're also talking about national politics, but what have they been talking about that seems, to your interpretation, to be uniquely rooted in Massachusetts?
Landes: Well, the U.S. Senate seat is fascinating because, in a lot of ways, you do serve as sort of a figurehead for the Commonwealth on this larger federal level. And what we've seen from the Elizabeth Warren/Ed Markey team, these are two progressive Democrats to the left wing of the party on many issues who have made a lot of their trade in opposing the Trump administration and advocating for more controls on business, more regulation, environmentally friendly legislation, things of that nature.
I think that reflects some ways in which people in Massachusetts see themselves as being a progressive entity in the United States. So that's another quality here about Deaton's challenge is that you're not just running against Ed Markey, you're running against a figurehead of progressivism that Massachusetts is particularly fond of on the Senate level for a long time. These are these are the long history of that role being taken up by outspoken advocates for the left.
Dingman: From afar, it seemed to me, and by far I mean all the way over here in New York. I mean, it has seemed to me, I guess, that if Markey had anything that he was struggling against, maybe at least during his primary against Seth Moulton, it was age. Markey is, if I'm not mistaken, in his 80s.
And actually, in an interview with him, you challenged him about the sense amongst many in democratic politics, particularly younger people, that there's a kind of a generational crisis happening, and it's time for a new generation of leaders to step forward. Have that obviously did not stop Markey from winning the primary. He did prevail over Seth Moulton, who's much younger than him, have any of those concerns followed Markey into the general election?
Landes: Questions about if he's too old for this job have been a part of his journey since the very beginning. He won the special election years ago before settling in as the full on senator when he was challenged by Joe Kennedy III, the young congressman.
It was the same thing — a moment of generational the baton being passed, a new voice for Massachusetts, etc. That did nothing to stop Ed Markey. This year, we saw Seth Moulton hurl himself into that narrative about 'I'm going to be this robust strong voice that's unflinching and unfailing and it's time to get the geriatric Ed Markey out of office' — that did nothing for people he absolutely cruised over Moulton in the primary and we talked about how this fits into larger national narratives in many places, we see very successful primary challenges, especially in the Democratic Party, where younger, more progressive candidates oust older establishment politicians.
Weirdly, in Massachusetts, we have an older incumbent who is a progressive politician, which is also the establishment, not being ousted by a more conservative, younger challenger in the primary. If you can wrap your heads around that, folks, that is Massachusetts in a nutshell.
Dingman: Well, let's talk a little bit more about John Deaton here, because even though I hear you saying it, it does seem relatively unlikely that he's going to be able to overtake Markey in the general election, given the way the polls are looking. He is a sort of a fascinating figure.
Landes: Yeah, for many reasons. First off, he hails from Highland Park, Michigan. So a tip of the hat to the Michiganders out there who see Massachusetts as possibly another 'M' state to settle in. But yeah, he grew up in poverty. He has survived testicular cancer. He's a former U.S. Marine. He's a practicing lawyer. He actually is a lawyer of some renown. Actually, he's gotten some acclaim for his abilities in the courtroom.
Like Phil Scott in Vermont, another northeastern Republican who's certainly not MAGA affiliated, Deaton's whole thing, and he said this relatively profoundly when he said, 'F the Democrats, F the Republicans, they both suck,' and that that's already trying to pitch here. Like I'm an independent voice, I'm not in lockstep with Donald Trump or the Republican Party. I'm definitely not a Democrat. He's trying to frame himself as the anti-establishment figure in this race again in this Commonwealth, especially given that he's a relatively new transplant. He came over, I believe, in 2023 or 2024 to run unsuccessfully against Elizabeth Warren in the 2024 senatorial election. So I don't know if he has the the weight behind his name that Ed Markey does, or if it's possible to make up a half century of local renown like Ed Markey has generated.
