The White House is trying to undercut Dr. Fauci.
In today’s Congressional Corner, Massachusetts Congressman Jim McGovern, a Democrat from the second district, continues his conversation with WAMC’s Alan Chartock.
Alan Chartock: I guess the first question I want to ask you today, Jim McGovern of the beautiful second district of Massachusetts, and it really is gorgeous, Fauci, the president, you have mentioned in the past that we have to follow the science. Fauci is the science. It's clear that the president and his people have, at least in recent days, tried to destroy Fauci. What do you make of it?
Representative Jim McGovern: I think it's unconscionable. I mean, we're talking about battling a virus that is killing people. And a virus that continues to spread rapidly here in the United States. And rather than acknowledge that, and, you know, listen to the scientists and listen to the medical experts to combat it, you know, the President still in denial. We this is nothing new. I mean, he was in denial at the very beginning. I mean, he downplayed this, he said that this was a hoax and, you know, as late as March, and here we are, you know, 135,000 people dead, millions of people infected. His delay and denial at the outset was deadly. People died as a result of his dragging his feet. And now, because it's politically inconvenient, and he's trying to get us all to bury our heads in the sand and make believe, like, nothing's happening. Well, that's just irresponsible. And quite frankly, I cannot believe that anybody, I don't care what their politics may be, you know, but would behave in such a way? Look, I mean, if the president is worried about his reelection, dealing effectively with this is not only the right thing to do for the American people, it's also good politics. Denying what everybody is seeing right before their very eyes happening is delusional. He is not fit for office. I mean, I, I said this somebody earlier I said I voted for impeachment because of his corruption. But he should resign because of his competence. I mean, this is incompetence at its worst, and it's and people are dying as a result of it. He refuses to wear a mask, he sends mixed signals. He's forcing schools to open prematurely. I mean, all that stuff. I mean, there's a cost to that. And the cost is that people could lose their lives. And so I, you know, I want to I want his presidency over as quickly as possible.
His niece, Mary Trump has written a book in which he says he's basically a dangerous psychopath.
You know, I'm not I'm not a psychiatrist, or a psychologist. I can’t make these medical diagnoses, but I'm just gonna say he's dangerous. And he's proven that time and time and time again. And I'm at and I really worry, to be honest with you that if he loses the election, whether or not he's going to go, whether he's going to want to leave voluntarily. I think he will try to discredit the results. I think he will try to say that undocumented immigrants gave the election to Joe Biden. And he will create a constitutional crisis. I don't think he cares about the impact on the American people. But he a dangerous man and, and his mishandling of this pandemic that we're now experiencing, again, has been costly in terms of terms of human life in this in this country.
So what do we have to do, sorry for the interruption vote but because it's so important, what do we have to do to prepare in case he decides he is going to subvert the American democracy in the vote?
Well, I think we need to make sure that all of our elected officials are on notice that we need to respect the results of the election number one, so that people don't circle the wagons around him when he says I don't want to leave. And I'm not and I'm not trying to be alarmist here, it’s just every time I think he won't do the unthinkable, he does. And he continues to say that the polls are all terribly wrong, and that he's way ahead and on and on and on. But I think we need to be prepared for the fact that they may be, he may try to force a constitutional crisis after the election, and I think we need to make it clear that we still believe that elections matter, and that the will of the people will prevail. And then if he's not willing to leave voluntarily, he will be escorted out of the White House.
Who will do the escorting, Jim McGovern? That's what I worry about.
Well, I'm happy to do it, but I'm sure our military will. Whoever. But the deal is that we need to be thinking about this because at every turn this President has pushed the envelope in a way that most of us would have thought was unthinkable. And so, you know, he's a sore winner, and I'm sure he'll be even a sorer loser. And it looks as if the election were held today, that he would not only lose, but he would lose decisively because I think the American people, even some of those who supported him, are sick and tired of the show. They're exhausted. They want somebody who's competent, who's going to solve problems, not somebody is gonna throw gasoline on the fire and try to prop up racists and white supremacists and people who just want to divide our country.
Talk to me a little bit. Jim McGovern. First of all, you are the chair of the very powerful Rules Committee. I want to know something in that capacity. Have you ever gotten on a phone with this guy, with Trump?
No. I've met him a couple of times. I've met him a few times. But I haven't, I've never, no. I mean, again, under normal circumstances, there is much more interaction between the White House and Congress. This guy doesn't even talk to the speaker anymore. I don't know when the last time he and Nancy Pelosi have actually had a conversation. But, he's very good at tweeting things. He's not very good at solving problems. He's not very good at trying to create climates where you can actually achieve bipartisan victories. I was a strong critic of George W. Bush, but I'm kind of nostalgic for him compared to. I mean, at least I thought Bush deep down was a decent human being. I just don't, I just don't feel that. I mean, again, my son is 22, my daughter's 18. My wife and I raised them to be decent, honorable, good people. And you know, and they asked me all the time, how could this be happening? How can we have a leader of this country say the things that he says about people, make fun of people, dehumanize people, how do we get to this point? And so part of what this upcoming election is going to be about, in addition to try to embrace policies that are that are more humane is to bring back some decency and some integrity to our government.
I want to ask you very quickly and we can continue it next time. We have a conversation but the Heroes Act. Can you just spend a couple of seconds on whether Americans will see some more relief of the kind they've had up until now? Because basically, the House of Representatives demanded it?
Yeah, well, the Heroes Act, it’s essential that we pass the Heroes Act because of among other things, it provides direct assistance to not only states but to cities and towns. Because our economy was shut down, revenues going into cities and towns to support essential services have been cut back. We have cities and towns that are now laying off teachers because they don't have the money. And the state doesn't have a lot of money. And cities and towns have been preparing for a decrease in state funding. So we need to come to the rescue here, if you will. And that's one of the one of the important parts of the Heroes Act is direct assistance to our cities and towns as well to individuals and small businesses. But our cities and towns need that help right this second. And we passed that Heroes Act two months ago today, it was on the 15th of May. And Mitch McConnell has yet to get off his rear end to do anything,
But he's got it right? He's got it?
Well, you know, a couple of days ago, I was talking to Speaker Pelosi who said that they're finally getting some signal from the Senate that they need to do something because Republican senators who are in tough reelection races are hearing from their constituents. We need help. Where are you? Now the question is, what will they agree to? How much of what we have in Heroes Act will they embrace and can we agree on it and get the President to sign it? There's also money in there to help with elections as well, to make sure that states that are sending absentee ballots out to everybody and that's covered, because there's a cost with regard to that.
That’s the last thing the Republicans want, right?
Noo, it is the last thing that they want. On the other hand, for the sake of our democracy, for the sake of our republic, for the stake of our country, we need to make sure our elections have integrity, and that everybody can participate.
Listen, we're out of time I'm sorry. I get on these shows with you and I just have a million questions to ask you and you're so forthcoming, but when we come back the next time, we'll talk some more. Okay?
All right. All right.
